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 General Sailing Forum
 Bedding a screw		  New Topic  Topic Locked
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kevinmac
Admiral

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USA
732 Posts
Initially Posted - 05/01/2007 :  10:24:57  Show Profile
OK, let's get the joke out of the way. Gotta be one here, bedding a screw, use a wench, I dunno...

Anyway, I attached my tiller extension socket to my tiller last night with two wood screws. I plan to put a Can-Sail Tiller Lock on my tiller this weekend, which uses two screws as well.

I got to thinking about it: should I be sealing these screws somehow, to prevent water from getting into the tiller? If so, how?

Thanks in advance for the help.
Kevin Mackenzie
Former Association Secretary and Commodore
"Dogs Allowed"
'06 C250WK #881
and
"Jasmine"
'01 Maine Cat 30 #34
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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts
Response Posted - 05/01/2007 :  10:31:18  Show Profile  Visit Frank Hopper's Homepage
I think buying a new tiller every three to five years is a good thing.
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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts
Response Posted - 05/01/2007 :  10:33:54  Show Profile
To keep moisture out, I use neoprene washers on the bolts securing my tiller mounting plates. I don't know if they could be used in your application.
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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts
Response Posted - 05/01/2007 :  10:34:56  Show Profile
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by fhopper@mac.com</i>
<br />I think buying a new tiller every three to five years is a good thing.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Actually, I agree (let's say 5-10 years), but the correct answer is ABSOFRIGGINGLUTELY. See my reply to Dan in the Epoxy thread--it mostly applies.
Edited by - Dave Bristle on 05/01/2007 10:36:01
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Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts
Response Posted - 05/01/2007 :  13:12:40  Show Profile
I find that tequilla and a large tool work best. Sometimes oil helps too.

C'mon Kevin, you can't post a subject like this and then think no jokes are coming.
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kevinmac
Admiral

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USA
732 Posts
Response Posted - 05/01/2007 :  13:20:25  Show Profile
Dave,

I read your reply, but I am wondering how to do this with a screw, not a bolt. If I fill and oversize pilot hole with epoxy, then redrill the hole after the expoxy cures, will I be able to get the screw in? Will it hold like it would with wood? (would with wood, man this thread is going to be full of jokes)

Maybe a new tiller every 5 years...

Randy,

I am actually suprised there aren't more so far... :-)
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Don B
Captain

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USA
317 Posts
Response Posted - 05/01/2007 :  13:42:53  Show Profile
Has the association ever had a single thread that contained the words, bedding, screw, wench, wood, tool, oil, tequila, extension, moisture, mounting, and ABSOFRIGGINGLUTELY??

I'll stop now
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Bill Arden
1st Mate

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USA
83 Posts
Response Posted - 05/01/2007 :  14:55:02  Show Profile
I contacted Catalina a little while ago about replacing bolts in the rudder pintle, and they told me they use 3M 4200 for bedding screws.

Hope that helps. I'm not clever enough to come up with a witty way to say it!
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Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts
Response Posted - 05/01/2007 :  17:38:13  Show Profile  Visit Leon Sisson's Homepage
I'd suggest some sort of thin bedding goo, such as 3M 4200. The way to use epoxy in this situation is to drill the screw hole, be sure it's the right size for the screw (or visa versa), coat the inside of the hole with as much unthickened epoxy as practical without it oozing out and making a mess. Install and tighten the woodscrew while the epoxy is still wet.

If you ever need to get the screw out, there are a couple of options. One would be to apply a very thin, tough lube to the screw befor installing it. (Axle grease wiped mostly off, heated wax, be resourceful.) The other method is to heat the head of the screw with a soldering iron when removing it. These methods can of course be combined.

-- Leon S.
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delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts
Response Posted - 05/01/2007 :  19:00:56  Show Profile  Visit delliottg's Homepage
Epoxy + heat = no bond. If you can get epoxy hot enough, it will release it's hold on whatever it's stuck to.

That said, I'd use Leon's method without the lube and worry about getting the screw out later if necessary using heat.
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Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts
Response Posted - 05/01/2007 :  20:14:49  Show Profile  Visit Champipple's Homepage
Mix up some west system and drill almost all the way through the tiller at a size 1.5 that the diameter of the screw. Fill it and let it cure.

Then tap the holes with the appropriate drill bit and there is no need to grab any washers. Ideally however you can just go with one of these


and you'll forget about why you even needed a tiller extender.


Though the wheel in this case is really small
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ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts
Response Posted - 05/01/2007 :  20:16:10  Show Profile
IMHO: Using 4200 to bed the screw is a good idea.

"Has the association ever had a single thread that contained the words, bedding, screw, wench, wood, tool, oil, tequila, extension, moisture, mounting, and ABSOFRIGGINGLUTELY??"

Heh. Over on SA this topic would have 10,000 posts by now... none of which would have anything remotely to do with boats.

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Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts
Response Posted - 05/01/2007 :  20:31:05  Show Profile  Visit Champipple's Homepage
But Clam, Where else can you correctly use the word Asshat, douse the downfuC$#r, and blow the guy in a sentence.

I almost posted a thread on SA about a name fo the new boat - but then I got wise.
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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts
Response Posted - 05/01/2007 :  21:30:31  Show Profile
Kevin--you really got something going here... Frankly, in a tiller, I'd drill a normal hole, fill it with caulk, put a little caulk on the fitting, and screw it on. These laminated tillers don't last forever regardless--eventually a little moisture gets in around the mounting bolts, and then somebody slips and sits on the tiller...<b><i>crrrrack!</i></b> I seriously would replace it at least every 10 years--for .6 boat unit, it's good insurance, and the new one looks great.

To get fancy, you overdrill, fill with epoxy, coat the screw with spray-on furniture wax, set it into the epoxy, and let it cure. Then you back the screw out (leaving perfect threads) and attach your hardware. But I'm not convinced that oversized hole isn't going to compromise the strength of the tiller, even when filled with epoxy. (Some would argue it makes it stronger--I dunno...)

STAND CLEAR... BLOW THE GUY... HARDEN! HARDEN!
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crcalhoon
Captain

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USA
303 Posts
Response Posted - 05/03/2007 :  16:52:46  Show Profile
I installed the Can-Sail a few months ago. Maybe I didn't go to great enough lengths, but I just predrilled the holes and filled them with lifecalk and screwed them down. Took about three minutes. I do use a tiller cover, which should keep some moisture out, but I think it will hold up for a long time.
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stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts
Response Posted - 05/03/2007 :  17:29:49  Show Profile
bedding screw and a wench etc? HMMMMMM. A couple years ago I tried to post a response with the name of a local lake, and my post was rejected...the offending word: Minnewanka.
What's next, advertising?!?!
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Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts
Response Posted - 05/03/2007 :  19:31:55  Show Profile
Stampeder, sorry to hear about your mini wanka. I'm sure you'll find a mate. Just keep looking.
Edited by - Nautiduck on 05/03/2007 19:32:51
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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts
Response Posted - 05/03/2007 :  22:09:48  Show Profile
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Nautiduck</i>
<br />Stampeder, sorry to hear about your mini wanka. I'm sure you'll find a mate. Just keep looking.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
He just needs to find someone with a mini hooha. (I'm outa here!)
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Don B
Captain

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USA
317 Posts
Response Posted - 05/04/2007 :  09:28:43  Show Profile
HAHAHAHA! He said mini wanka...

Now that's funny.
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Brooke Willson
Admiral

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USA
983 Posts
Response Posted - 05/04/2007 :  10:09:21  Show Profile
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by fhopper@mac.com</i>
<br />I think buying a new tiller every three to five years is a good thing.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Hmmm. I guess you have stock in a tiller corporation (Troy-Bilt?).

As far as I know, mine is original to the boat (1985). It's kept covered in the summer, and in the garage in the winter, and I put a coat of varnish on it every year.

Which means this will be the year it splinters one windy day.

Brooke
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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts
Response Posted - 05/04/2007 :  11:24:31  Show Profile
I replaced my tiller about five years ago. This replacement tiller is kept covered and it winters inside my garage. I don't see any reason to replace it anytime soon.
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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts
Response Posted - 05/04/2007 :  12:42:32  Show Profile
Mine looked perfect until it cracked from the butt (fuggetaboutit!) along the lamination by the holes between the mounting plates. I lashed it with some rigging tape and completed the trip.
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Jarrett Anderson
1st Mate

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61 Posts
Response Posted - 05/04/2007 :  13:46:35  Show Profile
There is much more pleasure wrapping leather around the helms wheel than bedding a couple of screws in the tiller...

Jarrett _/)
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kevinmac
Admiral

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USA
732 Posts
Response Posted - 05/04/2007 :  14:57:36  Show Profile
You know, I get sick for a couple of days, and see a really fine thread has ensued. I knew I could count on you guys...

Back to bedding...
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