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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

General Sailing Forum

At the crossroads...

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Don B
Captain

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USA
317 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/25/2007 : 11:38:45

Just got the call that we all dread...my mechanic gave last rights to my outboard...we're talking D.O.A. (Yes, I do have total trust in his judgment). The lower unit was the last straw. Guess I can't complain too much with the motor having provided 20 years of dedicated service. Sooo,...$2,000 for a motor, $600 for bottom job, and $1,200 for new roller furling plus new headstay. Almost $4,000 to get her where she needs to be. The boat itself is in good shape.

The crossroads...do I invest $4,000 into a boat that may be worth $3,000 or make the jump to a Catalina 30. I love the looks of the 30 and for some time have been keeping an eye on a few in the Florida area.

I know this is a very personal decision but was hoping that by putting my thoughts on this site, it may help me come to a resolution.

Don B
86FK/SR #5216 "Mighty M"
Southwest Florida

Edited by - on

Sloop Smitten
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1181 Posts

Response Posted - 05/25/2007 : 12:01:46

Let's see:
Motor - $2000 every 15-20 years
Bottom Job - $600 every 3 -4 years
Furler - $1200 indefinite times span, but long.

Probably spend at least half that much every year for upkeep of a C30 so if the decision is financially based I would stick with the C25. If not, move on up if you find the right deal.

Edited by - Sloop Smitten on 05/25/2007 12:02:16

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 05/25/2007 : 12:10:55

Tough decision, Don. Joe makes a valid point but, I would add that if you're likely to make the leap soon (1 -2 years) I'd seriously think about doing it now. I imagine that Mighty M would bring more than $3k though.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 05/25/2007 : 12:16:28

Say you were to sell your current boat sans motor, how much less would it be worth without a motor?

It would seem that it would still cost you $2,000.00 either way.

Edited by - dlucier on 05/25/2007 12:17:30

KenDavis
1st Mate

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USA
69 Posts

Response Posted - 05/25/2007 : 12:17:45

its always an interesting question.

for me, at this time the 25 is better because I can keep it in a slip that is only $5/ft. the 30' would cost twice as much because I would have to go to a different marina at $10/ft (bridge clearance issue)

for the extra money I don't think I would use the boat differently or more often.

However, I have dreams of serious offshore sailing and a 34 would be just the ticket!

you'll enjoy whichever boat you decide on.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 05/25/2007 : 12:48:12

I'm constantly looking for my next, hopefully bigger, boat, but I ask myself the same question that Ken just mentioned, "Will I use a bigger boat any differently than my current one?"...The answer for me is, probably not.

First off, I'm primarily just a singlehanded daysailor who doesn't lounge on the boat at the dock. If I'm at the boat, its under sail. If I can't sail, I go do something else. Since its just me, a bigger cockpit wouldn't make me any more comfortable so what could I possibly gain by moving to a larger boat?

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 05/25/2007 : 14:35:00

IMHO stuff follows:

It really depends on how you want to use your boat. To me, the C25 occupies a special niche because it sits right at the limit of practical trailerability for a 'real' sailboat. I can drag the boat to different venues, launch easily and still have the 'feel' of a bigger boat along with enough room for a couple to stay in relative comfort for a week or so aboard.

If trailering is not a consideration, I think you can get a lot more boat for a little more money if you step up to the 28-30' range. (A very loose rule of thumb is that interior volume through the mid-range of sailboats doubles for every 5' of length).

However, beyond 30' the dynamics of sailing the boat and the costs of ownership start to change quite a bit. By dynamics I mean that hoisting and trimming now require a winch, sails are harder to handle, the boat gets harder to dock solo, etc. Not to say that 30' and bigger boat's can't be single handed... just that the effort involved increases a lot.

Purchase costs kinda run parallel to volume too... a 'good' C25 on a trailer will start around $7K. An equally 'good' 28-30' something will start around $15K... really nice boats will be up in the 20's.

All that arm-waving aside, for my needs, the 28-32' something don't do me much good. Offshore here lies a fairly hostile North Pacific Ocean and I'm a long ways from getting anywhere 'nice' under sail... so the 25 is big enough for what I'm doing right now.

However, in a few years I'll be stepping up to a 35'-40' boat as my part-time retirement home... big enough to live aboard for extended periods and go the distances required to reach nice warm weather and water.

Edited by - on

existentialsailor
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1180 Posts

Response Posted - 05/25/2007 : 15:14:15

Or you could spend $6K a year on a time share boat or fractional ownership.
Why not buy a used outboard?

Edited by - on

Don B
Captain

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USA
317 Posts

Response Posted - 05/25/2007 : 17:39:17

"Will I use a bigger boat any differently than my current one?" - No
"the 25 is big enough for what I'm doing right now" - Yes
"I'm primarily just a singlehanded daysailor" - Yes
"you'll enjoy whichever boat you decide on" - Yes
"It would seem that it would still cost you $2,000.00 either way"-Yes
"if you're likely to make the leap soon (1 -2 years)" - No
"so if the decision is financially based I would stick with the C25"-Yes
"Why not buy a used outboard?" - I've search the local area and no joy...seems that good 25" shaft outboards are rare...won't purchase over the internet because some friends had a nightmare experience.

This is the magic of this board (a very important intangible that goes along with the C25)...everyone provided excellent ideas that help to provide more clear thought. Thank you very much and you might guess which way I'm leaning.

Edited by - on

atgep
Master Marine Consultant

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1009 Posts

Response Posted - 05/25/2007 : 20:31:40

It sounds pretty steep, but.....wana know what a new 20 hp diesel costs? Alot more than $2000. I will move to a bigger boat someday but I do love the fact that my sailing seasons cost very little since getting a new engine.

These boats have certainly hit the bottom and resale value is completely based on condition. The current economics have me thinking there may be a surge in recreation sailing.

You may be able to get a few $ for the dead engine on Ebay. I got $300 for a 14 yo engine with bad rings.

Tom.

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 05/25/2007 : 20:39:02

Tom (atgep) do you have any bigger pics of your spinnaker setup. We'll be raising our new (to us) spinny for a trial driveway sail this weekend if the wind stays low.

paul

Edited by - on

At Ease
Admiral

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672 Posts

Response Posted - 05/26/2007 : 09:30:20

Since you have been looking (seriously or just like we all do?), if seriously going to move up...do it now. Put the money in the new one.

Edited by - on

dblitz
Navigator

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240 Posts

Response Posted - 05/26/2007 : 18:24:29

I used to say to my wife, "if I ever tell you I want a bigger boat, hit me." But the fact is, if you're going to cruise or do a lot of overnighting, the C-25 is just not meant for that. If you're going to do the same stuff you do with your 25 why go through the hassle. Everything on a C-30 is more expensive, lines, hardware, storage, slips, hauling, everything.
If your considering an older C-30 with a raw water cooled diesel, one that may need replacement soon you're going to be talking about $ 10000.- easy and that's if you can do the job yourself.
I really don't think that boats are that similar to cars. That is,if you drive an old Audi, Saab or Volvo it really is crazy to keep putting money into it, but a boat is just not the same.
There are people that have million dollar sailboats that change their sails every year, C-25's are just not in that league. A new outboard every 20 years shouldn't cause you to hesitate unless your boat is really not suited to what you want to do.

Edited by - on

atgep
Master Marine Consultant

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1009 Posts

Response Posted - 05/27/2007 : 11:16:12

Paul here is a picture of my mast crane. I made it from 1/8 stainless stock. It is plenty strong enough and has seen plenty of action in 2 years. I leave the spin, halyard attached to the bow pulpit as I need my jib halyard. I may look to add a third internal halyard this winter. I have a few pis of it here.
http://www.freewebs.com/atgep

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 05/27/2007 : 12:12:13

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dlucier
 Say you were to sell your current boat sans motor, how much less would it be worth without a motor? It would seem that it would still cost you $2,000.00 either way.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
The $1200 roller furlor probably brings your resale value up by at least half of that. The $2000 engine does the same. So, you can figure the real cost to you of at least those major upgrades is half or less--you'll get something (not all of it) back at resale time, if that ever comes. If that time never comes, that only proves the value of your investments! It's essentially no-lose.

Boats yield positive returns on your investment in their own special ways.

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 05/27/2007 : 12:48:45

"Boats yield positive returns on your investment in their own special ways."

Well put.... or over on SA "Word".

Edited by - on

bbriner
Captain

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349 Posts

Response Posted - 05/27/2007 : 13:53:21

Ok, I'll contribute my 2 cents... I think the lure of a bigger boat can be very strong (don't we all dream of it?) - but if it was a pure money issue then only those who are truly wealthy would own a big boat since **everything** is more expensive. So, it seems to me that it really comes down to the question of if you want to (and will) use the bigger boat differently than you use the 25, i.e. is that the underlying motivation for the bigger boat? Some of those differences might be do you want to do some extended cruising and want more room? Do you want to race (and be competitive)? Do you want to take more people out sailing - at the same time that is? Will a bigger boat be better - more comfortable - for your sailing conditions? If the answer to this main question is no then I'm guessing you'll regret the decision ... eventually. Otherwise, put the money in your current boat and enjoy the improvements! It will be a lot cheaper than moving up. These boats probably have more sailing pleasure per dollar than most boats on the water. I've had mine for just 3 years and so far, I've put about $1500 per year into it for various projects (and that doesn't count all the little stuff... I don't want to add that all up!!).

Edited by - on

Don B
Captain

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USA
317 Posts

Response Posted - 05/30/2007 : 15:22:34

Seems Mr Brown will be paying a visit to my door step within the next few days...

"Dear Don,
Thank you for your order with OnlineOutboards.com! Your order details are below."

Thanks to everyone for their input...it certainly helped put things in perspective.

(Yes, I used the link through this site).

Edited by - on

SEAN
Admiral

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USA
772 Posts

Response Posted - 05/30/2007 : 17:00:16

Get a couple of prices for a new motor in the 30 .

Edited by - on

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