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Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Crack in hull

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Justin
Admiral

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502 Posts

Initially Posted - 06/11/2007 : 07:18:44

I've been working on my swing keel the past couple weekends and I am finished except for waiting for the bushing from the factory and raising it back up. One thing I noticed yesterday which I did not see the past few weekends was this crack at the forward part of the keel trunk on the hull bottom:

I was wondering if it may have been caused from when I lowered the keel, the front of the keel rubbed the front of the keel trunk. It didn't seem like much since I was lowering it so gently, but still it is a 1500lb keel. As the keel was lowered, it pivoted on the stern end of the keel since I had it resting on the ground. As it lowered, the front of the keel slid against the front of the keel trunk. Does anyone think this may have caused the crack? I then raised the keel cable slightly to allow the keel to slide back enough to prevent the sliding against the trunk. I have no way of accessing that part of the bilge because that is under the head sole. The "Catalina Smile" with the fin keels came to mind, where they have the cracks on the bottom just in front of the fin keel. I know mine isn't related to those, but if a minor crack such as the that is common and usually something not to worry about, I'm wondering if mine is also just an insignificant surface crack. That part of the hull seems very thick and built up.

My boat was in the water for over a year since I bought it and it wasn't taking on water. So, if lowering the keel didn't cause the crack, then I should be fine because the crack most likely has been there for years and I haven't had any problems for the past 1.5 years. I'm thinking about trying to get some water in that part of the bilge and see if any drips out. Does anyone have advice or seen this before?

Thanks,

Justin
Previous Owner of Sapphire Breeze - 1982 Catalina 25 SK/SR
My sail blog site: https://reveriesailing.com/

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 06/11/2007 : 07:59:55

Here is a recent post on this subject...

[url="http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14585"]Crack in my hull![/url]

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Justin
Admiral

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502 Posts

Response Posted - 06/11/2007 : 08:54:56

Thanks Don. I remember reading that thread a while back along with other similar posts. I just didn't think mine was caused by a falling keel since I never dropped mine unless a PO did and my boat wasn't taking on water before the haul out. It is a very similar crack to Alan's, although his does look a bit more severe and was taking on water slowly. Maybe my keel was dropped by the PO causing the crack and not the head rubbing against it as I lowered the keel.

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 06/11/2007 : 11:24:09

What does it look like inside? If there's no evidence, then you should probably at least fill the crack with something like Marine Tex to keep water from working into the laminates. If you see the crack in there, I'd get at least some advice from a pro.

Another type of incident that has been reported to crack the hull is riding over a submerged object (like a tree trunk or rock) such that the keel is pushed up and then drops on the other side. To me, it seems something like a hunk of tire tread should be affixed to the forward edge of the trunk to cushion and spread the force of a relatively small impact (not a total free-fall). But that would require some space...

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 06/11/2007 : 11:32:33

Another thing to consider is, the crack might just be in the antifouling. When I bought my boat, the bottom paint was in horrible shape and what appeared to be cracks in the hull were simply cracks in the rather thick bottom paint.

The crack could also develop if a PO used a bondo like substance to make a cosmetic repair and it flexed a bit.

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Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 06/11/2007 : 11:35:40

If the crack is more than in the antifouling, you will want to fill it with west system (or similar epoxy resin) and put in an additive such as colloidal silica or other fairing compound.

I've never used Marine Tex so I don't know if you can add filler to it or not.

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 06/11/2007 : 12:55:23

To Duane's point, Marine Tex is like a heavily-thickened epoxy. (It is epoxy.) Regular West System might be better if the boat is upside-down...

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 06/11/2007 12:58:18

cat30
1st Mate

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73 Posts

Response Posted - 06/11/2007 : 13:46:27

the last time my cable broke - the keel slammed down and cracked the trunk so that water was leaking into the boat. after estimates to make the repair, including dropping the swing keel- i decided it was a better deal to install a wing keel- insurance paid part of the cost. i used marinetex to make the repair even tho the new wing keel went in the swing keel slot and covered the crack.

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ct95949
Captain

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Aruba
300 Posts

Response Posted - 06/11/2007 : 18:03:00

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dave Bristle
 To Duane's point, Marine Tex is like a heavily-thickened epoxy. (It is epoxy.) Regular West System might be better if the boat is upside-down...

I mentioned Marine Tex because it can be stuffed up into the crack (I might even widen it a little), smoothed out like putty, and then sanded down when it has set. But if the crack goes through, you need a structural repair.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
With West System (or other brands)you can 'wet out' the work first then mix in fillers to get whatever consistency you want which is better than just thickened epoxy alone. I would open the crack with a Dremel or something similar first, maybe it is just paint.

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C25Guy
1st Mate

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USA
37 Posts

Response Posted - 06/11/2007 : 18:27:42

I just got mine back from repairs two weeks ago. I opted not to do it myself. The gentleman I had perform the work didn't think that the crack was caused by grounding, though I still do. His opinion was that the laminate was poorly laid in that area and that it was just a matter of time until it cracked due to the downward stresses imposed by the mast support.

On mine, he ground out a large amount of fiberglass in the area and rebuilt it back up, just as the advice on this site had suggested. So far, its holding.

Also of note, he said the core in that area had taken up a lot of water and that he let it drain for a few days. So even if yours is not leaking to the interior, it still could be taking up alot into the core. Filling the bilge and looking for drips will not indicate whether you have that problem.

Anyway, the rest of your boat is Bristol; I'm sure you'll have this solved in short order.

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atgep
Master Marine Consultant

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1009 Posts

Response Posted - 06/11/2007 : 21:48:55

1st, sand the bottom paint off. If the crack goes into the layup, you have to repair it. The catalina smile is more of a surface blemish than anything. That part of your boat is as critical as the thermal tiles on the shuttle...............

I learned in NAVY fiberglass school you need to grind out the cracks and layup the matrix again. Use a good epoxy vice the cheaper polyester resin.

If you already have the keel out of the way and the boat is dry, all the hard work is already done.

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Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 06/12/2007 : 06:46:43

Usually the smile doesn't occur on Swing Keels - but the repair steps are the same. Grind it out, fill it, Fair it.

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Justin
Admiral

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502 Posts

Response Posted - 06/12/2007 : 07:23:44

Thanks for all the tips so far everyone. Alan mentions the core. I thought it was solid fiberglass in that area. Do we have a plywood core down in the bottom of the hull?

I think my plan will be to sand down that crack and see how deep it is. If it seems to be just the gel coat, then I guess I will just use some Marine Tex to fill back in and paint back over. If it looks like the fiberglass might be damaged, then I'll look into seeing how much it would cost for someone to make the repair and/or do more research on do it yourself work.

Dave you were asking what does it look like inside. Do you mean in the trunk or in the bilge? I can't get under the cabin sole in that section and going up in the trunk I didn't see much of the crack. I'll take a better look next time, but it seemed like most of it went forward as you see in the photo.

The keel is lowered so some of the hard work is already done. Hopefully just a couple more weekends and I'll be back in the water! I haven't sailed my Catalina since January, only once this year!

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C25Guy
1st Mate

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USA
37 Posts

Response Posted - 06/12/2007 : 08:07:07

I didn't think it was cored either, but there was definitely a layer of something in there that held water!

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 06/12/2007 : 08:32:01

The hull isn't cored--I can't speak to whether any wood was used around the trunk itself. But crunched fiberglass can allow water to migrate into the laminates, following each of the glass fibers through the damaged resin. If there's any freezing in that condition, things can get worse.

Water is diabolical that way...

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 06/12/2007 08:34:11

Justin
Admiral

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502 Posts

Response Posted - 06/19/2007 : 13:27:18

Over the weekend I used my Dremel tool to remove paint and a little gel coat and investigate the crack. I found previous bottom paint (red) in the crack, so it must be quite old and definitely from a previous owner. Here are some photos:

I asked my marina owner for his opinion and decided to go with his recommendation. It may not be too severe, my boat wasn't taking on water last year, but he said it would be best to repair it to prevent water from delaminating the fiberglass layers. I decided to go ahead and pay him the $$$ to grind it out and re-glass. He will complete it this week so it will be ready for me to finish my final out of water projects this weekend. I plan to get back in the water next week!!! I can't wait, I haven't sailed my C-25 since January 6th!

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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 06/19/2007 : 15:09:39

Good call on fixing it. I hope you can sail soon.

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Justin
Admiral

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502 Posts

Response Posted - 06/25/2007 : 08:33:12

My marina owner did an excellent job repairing the crack. He ground it out and found actually a foam core. He mentioned that everything was dry inside which was good to hear. He reglassed it and you can't even tell it was repaired except for the different color of paint. Here are some photos:

They only had some extra blue bottom paint around, so the color doesn't match, but no big deal since I'll never see it once in the water. You may read in the projects thread that my out of water projects are completed and I'm getting back in the water this week!

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Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 06/25/2007 : 09:11:02

Oh-oh... Is that a depth transducer? If so, it's a good idea not to paint it with ordinary bottom paint, but rather the special transducer paint that comes in a little bottle. Next time you're working on the bottom, you might want to careflully scrub that paint off the transducer, maybe with a fine Scotch pad, and then use the specialized stuff on it.

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Justin
Admiral

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502 Posts

Response Posted - 06/25/2007 : 09:24:19

Well, good thing that actually is the plug for the knot meter, so that is fine. I hope I didn't touch up the depth sounder transducer which is under the v-berth. I know I touched up the teak block that it is mounted to when I just cleaned off the brush, but I don't remember wiping it onto the transducer (hope not). Thanks for pointing that out so I don't make the mistake next time.

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atgep
Master Marine Consultant

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1009 Posts

Response Posted - 06/25/2007 : 10:27:39

I am glad to see you make the repair. That spot is a very critical spot on your boat. At the end of the season, you can evaluate the repair to make sure it is sufficient. Al always an ounce of prevention........Your boat looks great BTW.

Tom.

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ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 06/25/2007 : 19:59:40

>"good thing that actually is the plug for the knot meter, so that is fine"

As I understand it, the issue is that solvents in the bottom paint can attack plastic, making it brittle.

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