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newell
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USA
113 Posts

Initially Posted - 07/04/2007 : 14:01:20

Has anyone ever tried to document a C25 with the USCG?? Perhaps the vessel does not meet the requirements for documentation??

newell

Newell
1980 C25 SR/SK
AVALON

Edited by - on

mhartong
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152 Posts

Response Posted - 07/04/2007 : 14:31:24

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by newell
 Has anyone ever tried to document a C25 with the USCG?? Perhaps the vessel does not meet the requirements for documentation??
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I checked with the CG on documentation of Persephone (C250 WK), and she was just under the 5 net tons required based on builders specifications. Since the specifications are very similar the C25 is most likely not documentable either. You might want to do a quick check using the [url="http://www.uscg.mil/hq/msc/t3/cg5397/cg5397.form.htm"] CG's interactive Application for Simplified Measurement [/url] before you apply. If you apply, and the CG does not approve your request, you are out the [url="http://www.uscg.mil/hq/g-m/vdoc/fees2.htm"]application fees[/url]

Mark

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Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 07/04/2007 : 14:48:47

The primary requirement is at least five "net tons". That's not the weight of the vessel, but rather a calculated volume. I went through the calculation and figured the C-25 to be about 4.5 net tons.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 07/04/2007 15:07:52

Champipple
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6855 Posts

Response Posted - 07/05/2007 : 07:49:32

I just calculated it here: http://www.uscg.mil/hq/msc/t3/cg5397/cg5397.form.htm

with a 5 foot draft and got 5 gross and 5 net tons. It probably wouldn't work for anyone with a wing keel.

I know in the past there was at least one person that had their vessel documented. Generally there is very little benefit to documenting a vessel of this size. On some bigger boats the bank will mandate it for loan purposes, but I don't see that happening on something under 20k.

I grabbed this off the coast guard website:

Net tonnage is a measure of a vessel's volume. It should not be confused with the vessel's weight, which may also be expressed in tons. Most vessels more than 25 feet in length will measure five net tons or more. For information about how tonnage is determined, including a web-based interactive form that calculates tonnages, visit the U.S. Coast Guard Marine Safety Center's web site at the Marine Safety Center's Tonnage Page.

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newell
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Response Posted - 07/05/2007 : 07:54:33

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Champipple
 I just calculated it here: http://www.uscg.mil/hq/msc/t3/cg5397/cg5397.form.htm

with a 5 foot draft and got 5 gross and 5 net tons. It probably wouldn't work for anyone with a wing keel.

I know in the past there was at least one person that had their vessel documented. Generally there is very little benefit to documenting a vessel of this size. On some bigger boats the bank will mandate it for loan purposes, but I don't see that happening on something under 20k.

I grabbed this off the coast guard website:

Net tonnage is a measure of a vessel's volume. It should not be confused with the vessel's weight, which may also be expressed in tons. Most vessels more than 25 feet in length will measure five net tons or more. For information about how tonnage is determined, including a web-based interactive form that calculates tonnages, visit the U.S. Coast Guard Marine Safety Center's web site at the Marine Safety Center's Tonnage Page.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

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newell
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113 Posts

Response Posted - 07/05/2007 : 07:57:10

Sorry, My previous post did not contain any comments. From my point of view the advantage to documentation is that in all state that takes the place of a state title and in some states it also takes the place of registration....thus, saving some money and hassle.

newell

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dlucier
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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 07/05/2007 : 08:30:52

If you boat in Nebraska, the registration fee would be $43.00 every three years. It looks like the intial USCG documentation fee for a recreational vessel is $133.00 so it appears that you would realize a savings after 12 years. Additionally, your state registration is done every three years whereas the USCG documentation renewals must be done yearly.

Edited by - dlucier on 07/05/2007 08:31:42

Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 07/05/2007 : 09:40:36

In CT, you must register the boat even if it's documented, so no savings here, and no way to avoid sales tax.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 07/05/2007 09:41:25

newell
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Response Posted - 07/05/2007 : 20:07:03

Let's be careful to draw a distinction between registration and titleling. If a boat is documented it does not need to be titled as the USCG documentation supercedes the title. In some states (I boat in Kansas) there is also no registration for a documented boat so there is some long term savings. Even in a state where registration is required you are not required to post the state registration numbers as the federal registration numbers supercede.

newell

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Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 07/05/2007 : 21:49:42

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by newell
 Let's be careful to draw a distinction between registration and titleling. If a boat is documented it does not need to be titled<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Point well taken... CT has no titling of boats, but as I said, documented boats must be registered with the state. Non-residents must register a boat in CT if it is in state waters for over 60 days in a year. Each state has their own variation on these requirements.

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britinusa
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5404 Posts

Response Posted - 07/06/2007 : 07:22:08

When we sailed up in Cocoa beach Florida last year with Jesse, there was a C250WB (pretty new, probably 2003-2006) that was progressing through the documentation process. I commented that they did not have the state tag on the port bow, they replied that they had nearly completed the documentation process.

Didn't get any contact info so could not followup (silly boy!)

Paul

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dlucier
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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 07/08/2007 : 07:10:45

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by britinusa
 When we sailed up in Cocoa beach Florida last year with Jesse, there was a C250WB (pretty new, probably 2003-2006) that was progressing through the documentation process. I commented that they did not have the state tag on the port bow, they replied that they had nearly completed the documentation process.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

In Florida, documented boats still must display a valid registration decal.

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newell
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113 Posts

Response Posted - 07/08/2007 : 19:25:33

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dlucier
 [quote]Originally posted by britinusa
 When we sailed up in Cocoa beach Florida last year with Jesse, there was a C250WB (pretty new, probably 2003-2006) that was progressing through the documentation process. I commented that they did not have the state tag on the port bow, they replied that they had nearly completed the documentation process.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

In Florida, documented boats still must display a valid registration decal.

Don:

According to the Federal Government, Florida is overstepping its bounds in this matter. The federal documetation numbers take precedence over state registration numbers and DO NOT have to be shown on the hull.

newell

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dlucier
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Response Posted - 07/08/2007 : 20:06:35

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by newell
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dlucier
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

In Florida, documented boats still must display a valid registration decal.

Don:

According to the Federal Government, Florida is overstepping its bounds in this matter. The federal documetation numbers take precedence over state registration numbers and DO NOT have to be shown on the hull.

newell
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Newell,

I didn't say anything about registration numbers, I said Florida requires the registration decal to be displayed on federally documented vessels.

From the Florida Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles...

Decals

A decal signifying the year during which the registration certificate is valid will be issued with each registration certificate. The decal must be displayed on the port (left) side of the vessel. It may be placed immediately before or after the registration number. A decal issued to a federally documented vessel may be affixed to a window or windshield on the port side. Any decal for a previous year's registration must be removed from the vessel.

Edited by - on

Champipple
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6855 Posts

Response Posted - 07/09/2007 : 07:29:52

Don is correct.
The state still has the right to charge a registration fee and require a registration sticker which must be displayed on the vessel.

If you think of the sticker as a usage fee and the numbers as a license plate. If you have the Government plates you don't have to get state issued plates but you still have to pay the tolls.

It is interesting that they actually state (in FL) that you need to remove the old stickers. I'm sure they do here in Ohio too but it isn't enforced all that often. I've seen bows of boats that look like Jack Metzels Sunday Sailing Sweater.

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newell
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113 Posts

Response Posted - 07/09/2007 : 10:03:00

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dlucier
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by newell
 [quote]Originally posted by dlucier
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

In Florida, documented boats still must display a valid registration decal.

Don:

According to the Federal Government, Florida is overstepping its bounds in this matter. The federal documetation numbers take precedence over state registration numbers and DO NOT have to be shown on the hull.

newell
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Newell,

I didn't say anything about registration numbers, I said Florida requires the registration decal to be displayed on federally documented vessels.

From the Florida Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles...

Decals

A decal signifying the year during which the registration certificate is valid will be issued with each registration certificate. The decal must be displayed on the port (left) side of the vessel. It may be placed immediately before or after the registration number. A decal issued to a federally documented vessel may be affixed to a window or windshield on the port side. Any decal for a previous year's registration must be removed from the vessel.

OK, My misttake! In Kansas the registration decal is, in fact, a set of numbers.

newell

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