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Rope Halyards

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Randolph G. Wilson
1st Mate

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USA
64 Posts

Initially Posted - 07/23/2002 : 15:39:43

I have just bought a 1893 Cat 25 that is still equipped with the original wire halyards. I want to go all rope. I have two questions:
1. Is it necessary to replace the sheaves at the masthead?
2. I want to lead the halyards aft along the sides of the pop top, which will require mounting blocks on the cabin top. Is it OK just to drill through the cabin top? What to use to waterproof? Should I use SS plates on the underside? Specifically, what fairlead blocks to use? Cleats? Quick acting? Also I saw one owner's mention of running the halyards inside the mast. How involved is this? What fittings are required? Does Catalina have a kit for this? HELP!!

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 07/23/2002 : 19:51:50

"I have just bought a 1893 Cat 25 that is still equipped with the original wire halyards. I want to go all rope."

1893?...Does this boat have wire rope or are they made from hemp? <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

"Is it necessary to replace the sheaves at the masthead?"

I didn't replace the sheaves and everything is working fine. This spring I converted to all rope halyards and I ordered the replacement external halyard sheaves from Catalina Direct. These external rope masthead sheaves cost $4.95 each (although their handbook lists them for $2.95). I later found these sheaves at www.Defender.com for $2.80 each(Part No. RF1751). Ronstan says that the max line size for these sheaves is 1/4", so a 5/16" halyard is not going to sit nicely into the sheave. Also the diameter of the CD replacement sheave(1.5" rather than 2") is such that you may have to file down the masthead to keep the halyards from chafing. Instead of installing these new sheaves, I reused the original 2" sheaves that were already in the masthead because the groove was basically the same size(1/4"), but they were 2" in diameter instead of 1.5" for the new ones. I been using this setup for a few months now and I have not had one problem. So to answer your question, no you don't have to replace the sheaves.

Frank Rich found a person who custom makes the correct size sheave. If you are looking for properly fitting sheaves, check out this topic
http://www.catalina25-250.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=869.

For more information concerning sheave/halyard replacements go to this link and click on "mast sheaves".
http://home.attbi.com/~c25sailor/projects.html

As for your question about the process for converting to internal halyards, here is an excerpt from an earlier discussion by Duane Wolff.

"What it takes to go internal."

First, the question was asked as why. The main reason for us was so the halyard would reach the bow and you could douse a sail and still leave the halyard on because it went all the way to the deck. Other reasons include no more meat hooks, easier to run aft to the cockpit, easier on the hands....

What we did.

Tools:
New sheaves
Dremel Tool
Reciprocating saw
Drill and 1 1/4 inch bit
Halyard exit plates
Fish Tape

Optional Prep:
The first thing we did was rewire the mast. This is entirely optional, but the only way for us to remove the foam that Butler and his boys put in the mast to keep the wires slapping around was to pull it all out. We put a very small piece of PVC Which we riveted in 6 places, two at the bottom, two at the top and one on either side of the steaming light up through the mast.

CUT:
Essentially, there are 3 holes you need to put in the mast. One at the top so the halyards can enter the mast and one on either side, so the halyards can exit. After removing the anchor light and all the additional items from the mast head we drilled two 1 1/4" holes into the masthead cap. You may even want to use a 1 1/2" bit. Both of these holes were at the point where the line would enter the mast. Then using a reciprocating saw we connected the holes so that you have an oval cut out when finished.

The second step is to determine where you want the halyards to exit. Sinc the main is set up to use the winch on the mast, you want that halyard to exit above the winch. For the Jib, you want it to exit above the cleat you are going to use for it. If you plan to lead the lines aft, I would suggest about 1 to two feet above the deck. I am no engineer, but figured if I staggered the exit points I would cause less structural damage. (may or may not be true...)

Cut the holes, using the rotary tool cutting bit, based on the size of your exit plates. These can range from about 6 to 20 dollars. Some have sheaves on them, some are just smooth stainless steel to keep the line from rubbing the cut aluminum. It is very important that you smooth all three holes and check that the line isn't rubbing regardless of your choice of exit plates. (I recommend the exit plates with the sheaves.

Use the fish tape to thread your lines. (Biggest problem is the compression posts. Once you are around them it is smooth sailing. To make it easier on myself I ran the line the length of the entire mast, then fished the one end back five feet through the exit holes. It saved me the hassle of running from one end of the mast to the other, plus I could run the length with both at one time. Once you have the lines run, rivet the exit plates in place. Replace the masthead. Enjoy."

Duane Wolff
"The Flying Wasp"
C-25, #401 std,sk
Chief Measurer C-25/250 national Org.

"I want to lead the halyards aft along the sides of the pop top, which will require mounting blocks on the cabin top. Is it OK just to drill through the cabin top? What to use to waterproof? Should I use SS plates on the underside? Specifically, what fairlead blocks to use? Cleats? Quick acting?"

As for your questions concerning leading your lines aft to the cockpit, check out this discussion. It is pretty comprehensive and includes pictures.
http://www.catalina25-250.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=760

As always, feel free to ask any questions. That is what this forum is here for.

Don Lucier, North Star
C25 SR/FK

Edited by - dlucier on 07/23/2002 20:40:14

Edited by - on

Sidurian
1st Mate

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USA
27 Posts

Response Posted - 07/24/2002 : 13:06:24

If you're going to run your lines back to the cockpit, I strongly recommend switching from wire to all-rope, especially if you're planning on using a downhaul - the thimble snags on the stays sometimes (depending on wind conditions), going up or down.

I also installed Harken organizers (3-roller version) - the lines will bump up slightly against your pop-top because of the camber/curve but it's not an issue. I used Spinlock triples (XA) and used a drill that fitted right through their holes. They fit snugly but nicely - to give you an idea of where they're located: I bolted them through the cabin top, even with the first wrung of the teak hand rail - that way I still have plenty of room for a Lewmar 6 or 7 (or, what I could do is install 3-bullets to keep the lines from catching underneath the edge of the pop-top as your pulling them from the cockpit...but that would be another six holes). I sealed the winch holes with 4200 and backed them with two sets of washers. By the way, CD sells backing plates but I didn't feel like cutting them to size, even though aesthetically it would have looked better.

My mast has the new mast plate which works great for running your lines to the organizers; I presume that if you run internal that the angle would be too steep or non-functional for this.

Good luck - sounds like you'll have your hands full for the summer.

There's always something!

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 07/24/2002 : 22:59:19

Hi Randolph...

To add to Don's and Sidurian's recommendations, I'll suggest not drilling through the cabintop for the turning blocks at the base of the mast. Catalina Direct sells a mast base plate that goes under the mast step and has six holes for anchoring swivel blocks. The advantage is that the entire rig is holding your turning blocks down. If you mount them to the cabintop, the upward pull when you put heavy tension on a halyard will be fierce--at least enough to compromise the bedding that keeps water from entering the top.

The "deck organizer" blocks and rope clutches are not being pulled upward, so bolting them is OK. Catalina Direct sells a complete kit for converting to all rope and leading the halyards back, including hardware and rope halyards. They will omit, add, or replace anything in the kit depending on exactly what you want to do. I got the sheaves from Frank's source--I recommend them.

My halyards and mast plate are in place--I hope to install the organizers and clutchs this weekend.

Dave Bristle - 1985 C-25 #5032 SR-FK-Dinette "Passage" in SW CT

Edited by - on

Randolph G. Wilson
1st Mate

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USA
64 Posts

Response Posted - 07/25/2002 : 17:58:24

Many, many thanks to each of you who replied to my questions. What a great resource you all are!
best regards, Randy Wilson

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 07/25/2002 : 23:09:38

Sailnet is having another cordage sale.

http://www.sailnet.com/store/selectlist.cfm?list_id=110& source=1

Don Lucier, North Star
C25 SR/FK

Edited by - on

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