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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Rigging diagram

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crowder.dr
Deckhand

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Canada
14 Posts

Initially Posted - 08/02/2007 : 19:42:53

Does anyone have a diagram for the rigging of a tall rig on a 1978 catalina 25. I am new to sailing and have launched the boat and raised the mast but need some assistance from there on

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Captain Bill
Navigator

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USA
148 Posts

Response Posted - 08/02/2007 : 20:19:17

I don't know much about this subject but have you tried the Manuals & Brochures on the left side of out website?

Good Luck, also a new and still learning sailor,

Bill

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 08/02/2007 : 20:38:38

Welcome David! The C-25 rigging is pretty generic--if you can find somebody who knows sailboats, they can probably help you through it. I'll also suggest that somebody check what you've done with the stays and shrouds, to make sure you have a safe rig. Diagrams are worth only so much... although there are some in the Owner's Manual: http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/manbro/Cat25manpre88.pdf

If you're completely new to sailing, what is your plan for learning how to handle the boat? Sailors are generally more than happy to teach new sailors, and (not to scare you or anything) the C-25 tall rig can be a handful as a first boat under sail (and around a dock).

All the best with your new adventure, and stick around here--we do what we can to support learners, bacause in the final analysis, we are all still learning!

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 08/02/2007 20:48:19

crowder.dr
Deckhand

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Canada
14 Posts

Response Posted - 08/03/2007 : 09:55:27

Thanks for your assistance and encouragment

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 08/03/2007 : 10:19:17

If you are located near the NW corner of Lake Erie, I'd be happy to help you with your rigging.

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delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 08/03/2007 : 11:48:14

If you're trying to figure out the best method for adjusting your rigging, I can highly recommend [url="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1898660670/105-6587357-5951628"]Sail and Rig Tuning[/url] by Ivar Dedekam. The book has clear descriptions as well as good diagrams on where to start and what the best sequence of events is.

As a fairly new owner to a tall rig C-250, I can attest to Dave's warning that they can be a handful to handle, especially if you are completely new to sailing. I'd suggest learning how to reef your main before going out the first time. I don't know about C-25's, but on a C-250, taking the first reef gets you down only to the size of a regular mainsail, so if you're in a blow, you still have a fair amount of sail up. Taking in the second reef gets you down to a pretty small sail that's pretty manageable. We also bought a storm jib so we could sail the boat flatter with a single reef in the main. Rita really doesn't like heeling, so I go out of my way to keep the boat flat. In a tall rig, that can be problematic if you don't know how.

Edited by - delliottg on 08/03/2007 11:54:36

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 08/03/2007 : 15:13:58

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by delliottg
 ...I don't know about C-25's, but on a C-250, taking the first reef gets you down only to the size of a regular mainsail, so if you're in a blow, you still have a fair amount of sail up. Taking in the second reef gets you down to a pretty small sail that's pretty manageable...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Good points, and the ratio is essentially the same on the C-25, except that the C-25 is a heavier, somewhat stiffer boat to begin with. (I believe Catalina dropped the tall option on the C-250.)

David Crowder--can you tell us more about where you'll be sailing and how you'll be learning? Also, what keel do you have (swing or fin)? These are things that'll help us give you more intelligent answers and unsolicited advice...

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 08/03/2007 : 22:04:42

I think Tom Potter has a tall rig c250.

paul

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brrit
1st Mate

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80 Posts

Response Posted - 08/04/2007 : 07:23:37

As a new 1989 TR/FK C-25 owner - with it waiting for the flood waters to recede to put in the lake - Dave and David are making me a little nervous about handling my new boat.

I have some experience with sailing, but not a great deal. I've "sailed" a Flying Scot and a butterfly - neither of which did I ever get just a 100% comfortable with by the way.

What makes the C-25 a hand-full to sail? Everything I had heard prior to purchase was that these are pretty easy to sail.

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 08/04/2007 : 08:39:51

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by brrit
 What makes the C-25 a hand-full to sail? Everything I had heard prior to purchase was that these are pretty easy to sail.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Hi Bryan... My comment had to do with two things:

1. At around 5500 lbs. (sailing weight), the C-25 is a lot of boat for somebody who doesn't have experience maneuvering and handling a boat--either under sail or with the small outboard in combination with the rudder. Docks, trailers, keels, rudders, and limbs can suffer...

2. Under sail, the C-25 is relatively forgiving--you can't really "dump" it like you can a Scott or a Butterfly--the keel will always bring you back up, so that part is easier. But everything is so much bigger that the power and mass involved is a whole different game. Also, on the tall rig, the lower boom makes unintended jibes somewhat more dangerous than on many similar boats.

I'm a believer in learning to sail on dinghies (like the Scott, Butterfly, Sunfish, Laser, Daysailer, Beetle,....) so that you understand the relationship between the wind, sails, and ballast at all points of sail. A keelboat just scales that up (and you are no longer the only ballast). Absent that experience, I strongly recommend lessons from either a sailing school or an experienced sailor who is willing to spend some time. On a "big boat", if the skipper doesn't know the difference between a jibe and a tack, or how to properly run downwind, how and when to reef, or even how to safely get the sails up and down in an unexpected blow, they can get themselves into a pickle that sours them (and their crew) on sailing forever--or even gets somebody hurt.

You'll do fine--just take it carefully and in steps. David hasn't said anything about his plans, except that he's "new to sailing" and doesn't know how the boat should be rigged. As somebody who as taught many people to sail (as others here have), that catches my attention.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 08/04/2007 : 08:42:49

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">What makes the C-25 a hand-full to sail? Everything I had heard prior to purchase was that these are pretty easy to sail.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Bryan, David's comment was made about the tall rig Catalina C250, which is a completely different design from your C25. Most people would agree that the Catalina 25 is a very well-behaved boat that is easy to sail in ordinary conditions. Any sailboat can be a handful if you're singlehanding in strong winds, but, when you're first learning to sail, you should avoid going out in conditions that are beyond your abilities. As you gain experience, you'll gain confidence in your ability to cope with more challenging conditions. The longer you own and sail your C25, the more you'll appreciate her sailing qualities.

So far as the size and mass of the boat are concerned, IMHO, that's a two-way street. For example, heavier boats are affected much less by gusts of wind when you're near a dock or entering a slip. They don't get pushed around by the wind as easily as lighter boats. In some ways, they're easier to control. But, as Dave indicates, their weight makes them harder to stop, so you have to minimize your speed when you're docking, so that it's never necessary for you to stop them suddenly, because, as you'll soon learn, sailboats don't have brakes.

Edited by - Steve Milby on 08/04/2007 09:47:07

britinusa
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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 08/04/2007 : 08:44:34

Bryan, we went from sailing a Laser II dinghy up to the C250WB in one step.

At first I just applied my dinghy experience to 'sailing' and we got around ok, but after participating in this forum I started (still learning) the finer points of sailing a 'big boat', and the rule -when entering or leaving a slip/dock, don't motor faster than you want to hit something-.

From what I can gather from the very experienced crew onboard here, there are a few things you can be sure of with a bigger boat (bigger than a laser).
a) You'll always learn something new and valuable from both new and seasoned owners.
b) You'll always find more stuff to do/fix/update/improve on your boat.
c) You'll never cease to be amazed at the apparently unlimited stupidity of some folks on the water.
d) You'll never get tired of that awesome feeling as the boat responds to the minor changes you make in the trim of the boat and how sweet it is to be on the boat in pleasant wind on a course to some new destination.

Paul

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brrit
1st Mate

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80 Posts

Response Posted - 08/05/2007 : 06:53:50

Thanks for the reassurance guys. I am concerned about docking the bigger boat, but other than that it sounds like my expectations of the C-25 are accurate. I do like the idea of having a more experienced sailor head out with us the first couple of times out on the water until I get really comfortable with everything.

Now if I can just get the flood waters to go down so I can get at.

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John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 08/05/2007 : 10:25:40

Bryan,
Check out this thread regarding docking made easy. Randy's dock-o-matic has allowed me (another novice sailor) to be able to dock my C250 pretty well. Only lost one bow light thus far this year. 'course that was before "Dock-A-Matic"

http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=15645

We, too, moved from a small daysailer to a "real boat" this year. The only thing I might add is some advice I got earlier in this forum. Things tend to happen more slowly on a bigger boat. That gives you time to react and act appropriately.

A sailing instructor I once had told me that if all else fails, let go! If you release the sheets and let go of the tiller, the boat will head into the wind and stop. Once it's stopped, re-group and start again.

Edited by - John Russell on 08/05/2007 10:26:31

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 08/05/2007 : 15:49:01

Of course, when you stop a sailboat head-to-wind (also known as "in irons"), you have another little issue--how to get started again. The boat doesn't steer when standing still. A trick I learned on my first, home-built sailfish, which I've applied on all sorts of boats since, is the following:

1. If you want to get onto a starboard tack (wind to starboard), push the boom over to the starboard side of the cockpit and the tiller to port (never more than 45 degrees). The boat will back up, swinging the aft end to starboard.

2. Let go of the boom, reverse the rudder just a little, trim the sail, and off you go.

To get onto a port tack, do the opposite.

Another approach is to pull the jib over to the "wrong side" (starboard to get on a starboard tack), backwinding it to push the bow to port (and also backing the boat a little), and then release and trim it.

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dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 08/05/2007 : 20:10:20

Crowder.dr: I've got a recently-purchased C-25 tall rig and will try to answer your questions, as I'm sure some of the long-time tall riggers in this group will. Where are you located? I ask because we have some Dr. Crowders here in Nashville.

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dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 08/05/2007 : 21:07:18

Another thing for first timers with a bigger, heavy boat, until you are comfortable with the boat, take sails down and start the motor before you come into the marina. If you have a straight shot to the slip and will be head to wind in the slip, it's not too hard to bring a C-25 in under sail, in light air. due to running out of gas, I had to do that last week and managed it with no problems. Second recommendation, always make sure you have sufficient gas before you leave the dock! LOL

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crowder.dr
Deckhand

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Canada
14 Posts

Response Posted - 08/10/2007 : 16:31:13

Thanks for all your great reply's. I am located in Ottawa Ontario Canada. I have had the boat out a few times with just the outboard to get used to the size weight and capabilities of the boat. I have not had any trouble to date leaving or entering the harbour and docking. We have signed up for some private lessons on our boat as well as the basic crusing course this fall. Thanks again for all the info.

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 08/11/2007 : 09:29:57

Sounds like you're in good hands... You're gonna love your C-25!

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