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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Help me love my TR/SK!!!

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Randall
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123 Posts

Initially Posted - 07/28/2002 : 00:15:31

Hi everyone,

I bought a '79 TR/SK last month. The price was right, and it came with a nice tandem axle trailer. I had it moved to Lake West Point (on the AL/GA border) from the Pensacola FL area. I now have it in a slip at Southern Harbor Marina, and she's rigged up & ready to go. Tomorrow I take her out for the shakedown cruise.

My problem is, I haven't warmed up to her yet. I'm bothered by the low boom on the TR, the silly dinette layout, and the starboard settee that is too narrow to sleep on. The boat just doesn't seem like HOME! I need a boat my family can be comfortable on for long weekends & the Cat 25 doesn't yet feel like our weekend cabin at the lake.

A bit of background: I'm a cop from the central Texas area (Kerrville). My wife, 8 yo daughter and I sail out of Lake Amistad in Del Rio. We've owned a Starwind 19, a Spirit 6.5, and a Clipper 26. I'm also an Army reserve guy, and in January I was drafted for a year to serve at Ft. McPherson in Atlanta GA (tough war-time duty, huh?). I immediately started sailboat shopping at Lake Lanier, and fell in love with the Cal 25 and Ericson 25-plus. They are big-bellied floating weekend homes. The problem was that there are no trailers to be had in the Atlanta area, and I want to be able to drag my boat home at the end of my duty year. I went shopping for a trailer, and found one with a Cat 25 sitting on it. I decided to try to like the Cat, and if I couldn't, to sell her and have the trailer I needed.

I love the fact that there is a forum like this with a HUGE wealth of experience & and advice about Cat 25s. Many of the questions I have about the boat have already been answered just by checking this site. I have found next to nothing about Cals and Ericsons. I also like the availability of parts for the Cat 25. You are pretty much on your own when trying to repair/upgrade a Cal or Ericson. I like the shallow draft of the Cat swinger for trailering and gunkholing. I like the poptop for ventilation in 100+ Texas heat. I just don't know yet whether I can live happily ever after with the cabin layout.

Tomorrow may tell the tale: will I like the way she sails enough to accept compromises in cabin liveability? I hope so! Thanks in advance for the encouragement and advice I know is available from members of this site-- that alone is a giant consideration in keeping the Cat. I'll let you know how the maiden voyage goes.

Regards,

Randall

Edited by - on

Douglas
Master Marine Consultant

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1595 Posts

Response Posted - 07/28/2002 : 03:10:10

With a little ingenuity and a bit of work you can adapt the interior to give you all the sleeping space you need. Although I have a traditional interior = two narrow settes I have been able to addapt. I now have a way of setting the main cabin into a queen size bed. I only use the rest of the sleeping areas for storage. Im sure with a little help your boat can be made to fit your needs. By the way I have just finished a week long cruise and I still love my Catalina.<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2d823b3127cce9e4e9a93193a0000001410" border=0>

Doug&Ruth
Wind Lass
Tacoma Wa.

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MattL
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 07/28/2002 : 03:31:30

Doug & Ruth,
Any photos of the sleeping set up, set up?

Matt/Brigitte Loeffler
E.C. Rider
Cat 25 86'
FK/SR _/)

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Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 07/28/2002 : 18:44:21

Welcome to a great club, Randall!

As you probably know, the tall rig's boom rides about a foot lower than the standard, and the luff is 3' longer. Some non-racers have had their mains cut to regain that foot, while others have talked about adding shallow reef points to do the same thing while keeping the option of "lowering the boom" for racing. If you plan to race PHRF or one-design, you might want to look into the latter--otherwise, the former may make things a lot more comfortable in the cockpit.

We have the Dinette interior, and plan to add a platform to convert the area to a large athwartship double berth. For that purpose, the dinette offers the advantage of making the space we need to cover quite small. We'll add a collapsable platform and a narrow cushion, possibly made from the one that runs behind the companionway to widen the aft berth. Many people have done this--engineered in various ways. Hopefully, you'll hear from some here.

So, give her a little time--your C-25 is a safe, solid, relatively fast boat with nice accommodations and a huge group of owners who will share all of their ideas!

Dave Bristle - 1985 C-25 #5032 SR-FK-Dinette "Passage" in SW CT

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 07/28/2002 18:46:36

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Randall
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123 Posts

Response Posted - 07/28/2002 : 21:34:59

I took my boat offshore today for the first time, and had a nice sail. The winds were 5 to 10, and I sailed under the main and (I guess) the 110 jib. I thought I had the 150 hanked on, but this'un barely lapped past the mast. Regardless, when the winds were at 10 she moved well with one-finger control on the tiller. I noticed a VERY Loud hum from the keel cable when moving fast. It actually sounded like someone was below decks working with a hammerdrill. After I got her back in her slip, I found that there were several wraps left on the winch, so the keel must have been down only 2/3rds to 3/4ths of the way. I didn't go sailing again, so I don't know if letting the cable out "changed her tune" any. I left two full wraps on the winch--does that sound about right?

Just about every idea or question I've pondered about my boat appears to have already been discussed in detail on this site. This is a tremendous advantage for a new Cat owner. Yesterday I was thinking about biminis, and presto!-- there were new posts about tall rig biminis. Today on the boat, I thought about a berth extender to make the starboard berth habitable for one. On the drive back to Atlanta my imagination expanded a little and I realized that an extender could make a 5' wide bunk running athwartships. I log on this site tonight, and find advice on making that very adaptation. Keep it up folks, and you may win a Catalina convert!

My next question is about email etiquette. The only other sailing site I've posted on is the free-wheelin' Trailer Sailer messageboard. The sky's the limit there, with lots of "great sail today" or "I heard a great story" kind of posts. I notice here that there are a few technical topics posted, lots of people read them, and a few offer advice. That's surely a lot more scholarly and concise way of sharing data, and I don't want to clutter the board with fluff. Does everyone follow up on each thread, and offer sage advice when warranted? Should I ask multiple questions on one posting, or break them up as separate posts? For the foreseeable future I'll have lots of questions, and I don't want to step on toes when I ask them.

Randall

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Douglas
Master Marine Consultant

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1595 Posts

Response Posted - 07/29/2002 : 04:13:47

We dont worry about toes here on the board. We only wory about them when out sailing. Whatever format you chose we will help. There are no dumb questions. Have you also explored the old Tech Tip section and Manuals ? They too are a great source of information. I will post some pictures of my sleeping set up as soon as I can get down to the boat to take a few pictures. Welcom and glad we can help.

Doug&Ruth
Wind Lass
Tacoma Wa.

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jellyfish
Navigator

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USA
171 Posts

Response Posted - 07/29/2002 : 10:40:08

welcome aboard Randall!!! you'll find lots of tips here and just sitting aboard your C25 will spring lots of ideas for you. I never race my boat, just cruise around the Pensacola area here. I will share an idea for the sleeping: I took a 4x8 sheet of plywood and cut it to measure(in 3 pieces) the outside hatches in the cockpit. When cruising I stack them on top of one anyother and slide them back under the tiller. This give me a wider seat and only take up space that is useless anyway because of the tiller. It also allows me to cover my lunch hook under it and out of the way. When we are at anchor I spread the boards out and it give me enough room for lawn chairs to be set up for lounging or whille Im cooking. Further when it is time to go to bed on a nice night I throw the old trap over the boom and get out the inflatable air mattress I bought from Wal Mart for $39.99 and sleep under the stars in the cockpit. When weather doesnt permit, I take the same boards and put them across the inside settees and put on the mattress. Queen size sleeping for two! I used a thick piece of plywood and covered it with indoor outdoor carpet. You would be surprised how well the standard blue in/out carpet matches the boat. I have had these boards left mainly out on the deck now for over three years with no deteriration. (sp) Good luck and happy sailing!

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Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 07/29/2002 : 12:04:44

Randall,<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Should I ask multiple questions on one posting, or break them up as separate posts?<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>As you've probably noticed, unlike the [url="http://trailersailor.com/forums/trailersailor/"]Trailer Sailor board[/url], if a thread here wanders off on a tangent not mentioned in the original subject header, that fact isn't obvious without reading down into the responses. For better or worse, I think this characteristic of our software tends to discourage (but not prevent) rambling discussions, and makes vague or ambiguous topic titles even less helpful that over at [url="http://trailersailor.com/forums/trailersailor/"]Trailer Sailor[/url]. Given this format, my preference is one well defined topic per thread. But as Doug&Ruth said, it's no big deal. We'll help you out as best we can, no matter how you format your posts. If you're looking for a shrill scolding for minor or imagined infractions of the status quo, I'm afraid we'll have to redirect you to some other, more rough and tumble, forums.<img src=icon_smile_evil.gif border=0 align=middle>

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>... lots of "great sail today" ... kind of posts.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>A few people, including myself, have posted short "great sail today" stories. One type of "great sail" post I'd like to see more of, is "Here's a cruise I took (or race I sailed) with my C-25" with particular emphasis on the "C-25" aspect of the adventure. What worked (what didn't), ideas for improvements that popped up, how the boat and crew handled unusual circumstances, etc.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>I don't want to clutter the board with fluff.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote> If by fluff, you mean chat-room style cyber-socializing, once again, there's the software format style. If it's chat-room interaction you seek, the [url="http://trailersailor.com/forums/trailersailor/"]Trailer Sailor[/url] and [url="http://old.cruisingworld.com/forums/genlmesg/index.pl"]Cruising World[/url] bulletin boards seem to offer plenty of it. As you've seen, their BBS software makes it much easier to broaden a topic, and to skip over topics that don't interest you.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>... I noticed a VERY Loud hum from the keel cable when moving fast ... the keel must have been down only [part of] the way ... does that sound about right?<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>Yes, that's typical of most swing keel boats (Parker-Dawson 26 being an exception). If you let out enough cable for it to just barely go slack, the noise goes away.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Just about every idea or question I've pondered about my boat appears to have already been discussed in detail on this site. This is a tremendous advantage for a new Cat owner.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>Stick around, you ain't seen nothin yet! It's a darn shame we seem to have lost our Catalina 25/250 archives on the Trailer Sailor site. There was even more info there than we've accumulated here so far. I wish there were a convenient way to capture all this collective knowledge onto one or more CD-ROMs we could share with new owners. Can you imagine a clickable picture of a C-25 (top and side views?), such that when you click on area of the boat, you get a zoomed in view of that area. When you then click on a specific part, you get a list of all previous forum discussions of that boat part? There could also be a more general table of contents with C-25 specific topics like "Seamanship", "Safety", "Overnighting", "Fishing", "Reefing", etc. We could update the CD every year, and offer it as an enhanced membership feature for some extra $$ in our association treasury (and to compensate who ever we talked into creating it). Or maybe this should be added to our association website? See, there I go rambling off topic, and thinking up work for others to do.<img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle>

-- Leon Sisson

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Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 07/29/2002 : 14:36:09

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Can you imagine a clickable picture of a C-25 (top and side views?), such that when you click on area of the boat, you get a zoomed in view of that area. When you then click on a specific part, you get a list of all previous forum discussions of that boat part? There could also be...
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>
LEON! Your motor's running! You should go to work for Mark! <img src=icon_smile_cool.gif border=0 align=middle>

Randall: The best thing about this format (we used to use Trailer Sailor's) is that with one click, you get the whole thread. The worst thing is that with one click, you get the whole thread. <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> That means one "Subject" in the index--suggesting that each new idea or question should be a new thread--for easy browsing.

Many of us drop in on the TS board, mostly to be amused by the banter. After we bought our C-25, I pretty much stopped posting over there and came here for discussions--but I'll never claim to be a Charles Brennen or a Skipper Ed! (Do those guys ever actually sail??)

Dave Bristle - 1985 C-25 #5032 SR-FK-Dinette "Passage" in SW CT

Edited by - on

Ed Montague
Captain

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USA
499 Posts

Response Posted - 07/29/2002 : 16:18:47

Randall, I have the dinett set up and for my family it works fine. The traditional interior gives more open space which works if you need a large play pen area for small folks. My older kids like the dinett table for playing cards, eating, and just visiting when they bring friends along. Also, I have extended the starboard bench out 3 1/2 inches to make it wide enough to comfortably sit on. I have added a lee cloth to give support for sleeping. It really is quiet comfortable now. Sorry I can't give you any advise on the tall rig.

You can't see it very well but this is a shot of the extended seat.
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2d825b3127cce9e70f956cb490000001410" border=0>

Ed Montague on 'Yahoo'
1978 #765 SK, Stnd, Dinette ~_/)~

Edited by - on

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 07/29/2002 : 16:39:29

Dave Bristle,<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>LEON! Your motor's running! You should go to work for Mark!<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>As the babe on the street corner said, "I'm not cheap, but I'm available!"

-- Leon Sisson (under-employed computer nerd)

Edited by - on

Ed Montague
Captain

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USA
499 Posts

Response Posted - 07/29/2002 : 16:46:12

Here is a photo of a 14 year old sleeping on the starboard seat with the aid of a lee cloth and the widened seat. My 14 year old daughter is in the quarter berth. It isn't the Ritz but this is the sleeping arrangement we had for our recent trip to Catalina Island for 5 nights. My wife and I sleep in the V berth comfortably. The dinett is still available for seating and the passage through the boat is open so we could get up and start moving about before the girls.
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2d908b3127cce9f68e29cb9bf0000001410" border=0>

Ed Montague on 'Yahoo'
1978 #765 SK, Stnd, Dinette ~_/)~

Edited by - on

Buzz Maring
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1768 Posts

Response Posted - 07/29/2002 : 17:22:39

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Here is a photo of a 14 year old sleeping on the starboard seat with the aid of a lee cloth and the widened seat.

Ed Montague on 'Yahoo'
1978 #765 SK, Stnd, Dinette ~_/)~
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Ed,

You da' man! What a cool idea ... would you mind telling us how you did that?

Thanks!

Buzz Maring, C-25 SK/SR #68, "Freya"

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Ed Montague
Captain

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USA
499 Posts

Response Posted - 07/29/2002 : 20:29:14

Thanks Buzz, Tell my kids that!!! Anyway this is a fairly straight forward job. First remove the teak strip from the front edge. Cut a piece of 1/2" plywood 5" wide by the length of the seat. Stain or paint (whatever you please). Lay the strip of plywood down on the edge of the seat with 3 1/2" over hang and 1 1/2" overlapped on the fiberglass edge. Thru bolt the plywood down to the fiberglass and install the teak trim to the over hanging plywood. The back rest cushion is moved down to fill the new gap created by the bottom cushion being moved forward. This will require moving the snaps down on the side bulkhead.

The lee cloth was purchased from WM (2002 catalog, pg 818, upper left corner) for $20. The lee cloth is screwed down to the plywood extension up against the teak trim and has short pieces of line to be tied to the bars that hold up the pop top. I just tie a quick knot, but you could attach eye straps to the ceiling and use hooks. There are enough things sticking down from the ceiling to bump my head on so I just tie a knot. As you can see from the photo this set up makes for a very secure bed. I would think that it would work great for children, just tuck them in. Hope this helps.

Even if you don't use the seat for a bed this project makes just sitting more comfortable. I was constantly bumping the back of my head before adding just 3 1/2". Now that isn't such a problem. The lost aisle space isn't noticed.

I have designed a system to bridge the gap between the seat and the dinett that will simply fold away when not in use. We are hoping to get another couple up to the boat this weekend so I need to get it done soon. I'll take photo's.

Ed Montague on 'Yahoo'
1978 #765 SK, Stnd, Dinette ~_/)~

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Ed Montague
Captain

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USA
499 Posts

Response Posted - 07/29/2002 : 20:38:33

I just re-read the start of this subject. I just want to say to Randall that what we have here is a smallish coastal/lake Criuser. She even races pretty well. Most of us have modified our boats to fit the need. I don't race my C25 and my primary goal is to make sailing an enjoyable experience for the family. Reference to "the Admiral is gone" discussion earlier. If the wife is happy and I get to go sailing, what could be better. To top it off I get to trailer my boat to exotic locations generally unreachable in reasonable amounts of time. You can make the boat anything you want. Don't be afraid to ask questions.

Ed Montague on 'Yahoo'
1978 #765 SK, Stnd, Dinette ~_/)~

Edited by - Ed Montague on 07/29/2002 20:40:19

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