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Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Initially Posted - 09/19/2007 : 01:49:44

As with many of us, I dream of cruising the world someday and admire those who have. In my list is a very well equipped 42-45 foot comfortable cruiser. Most probably a center cockpit with in mast furling for the convenience since I will probably be 55-60 before I can retire.

I'm a dreamer, but a realist too. Now at 40 I'm healthy and still relatively fit, but "relative" is the operative word here. Even after only a day of sailing our C250 we come back home pretty tired (but of course we launch, sail and retrieve which is fairly demanding and we don't really take breaks). How realistically can a mature healthy couple (wife and myself) 55-65 sail in the following situations:

1 - Day or weekend sail (I'm fairly optimistic on this one)
2 - Small 1-2 week excursions (coast)
3 - Full out crossing oceans and visiting the world.

I know many of this association's members are 50+ and wonder if they could comment on their perceived ability to tackle any of these 3 situations above? I understand that there are many "it depends" but overall their is a darn limit at some point, sailing is physical! Even situation #1 is probably impossible at a certain point.

Here in my opinion are the maximums:
#1 - 70
#2 - 65
#3 - 60 (So I better plan to start at about 55, cruise for 5 years then slow down).

I need this information for planning purposes. Since I believe my target is 55, this still gives me 15 years to go and it is feasible in my case.

Steve Blackburn, Calgary, AB
C250WB - 1999 - Hull 396

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3466 Posts

Response Posted - 09/19/2007 : 05:35:02

Steve,

You remind me of an issue that I was always contemplating...and that was...."When is it time to give up basketball ?" The answer I eventually came up with was...injuries - their frequency has a bearing but...it really for me turned out to be when other sports/hobbies became of greater interest.

Your contemplation -

I think it has to do with partially with the drive/desire to do the things you want to do, experience/skill, having the means and time and being in good health/fitness to accomplish what you want and feel good about it.

No 1 & 2: I would have interest in and is probably achievable past 70. People live longer these days and are active much longer as well.

No: 3: I can say that I have never had the interest to do this on my own in my own boat. However...doing that on a cruise boat (ie. Princess, Royal Caribbean, Celebrity Cruise Lines)...is another matter... but even on those...no real desire to cross the ocean. More of a desire to see islands, coastal cruises, etc. On my own boat whether it be a 25'or a 40' I probably would only have the desire to do sails relatively close to shore but extended trips probably not longer than 2 weeks.

One thing that I know is stifled by my sailing, boat maintenance and improvements is my bike riding and regular exercising. One desire i would have is to rearrange my time so I have time for both and not feel like I am depriving myself of sailing/boating time. Exercising is important and even more so as we age. it also enhances confidence and positive thinking which is a factor for Nos 1, 2 & 3.

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 09/19/2007 : 07:07:11

Steve, we (59&62) get exhausted by the time we get the boat home after every trip, and no doubt that is due to the high energy, high temp, high humidity work involved in retreival, prep and the drive home.. so one of the questions we ask everytime I see a 'ooooooh! I want one of those' is "would we be like that on an extended cruise?"

Our conclusion is that we are driven by the need to get back on schedule and so push ourselves that extra bit, if time were less of an issue we would most certainly take the load off for a while.

Then the question arrises.. What if we were between ports and it turned nasty and stayed that way for a day - or two? It would be naive to think that we would never head out if the weather looked to be turning downwards. So we discuss that issue. Our conclusion on that would be 'yep, it would get tough, so we had better get tougher!'

Larry, I like your recognition of the need to exercise, it'll obviously make a difference. And it leads me to one of my regular quotes...

What's the point of exercising if you don't get to do the things you want with the extra time you give your life!

Who wants to live longer in order to get to the doctors or dentist office more frequently? Live and sea the world!

paul

Edited by - on

Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 09/19/2007 : 07:23:27

I'm 56 years old (young) and most folks think I'm in my 40's.
Possibly it's because of my immaturity

IMHO, and as a medical professional, I would like to add that in addition to a cardiovascular fitness regimen, It's important to have an element of resistance (read:weightlifting) training. Let's face it, lifting a mast, cranking a winch, lifting a beer filled cooler, changing a tire takes some strength. It also helps prevent injuries.
I'm getting arthritis in some of my joints, and all my orthopods agree that continuing weight training will help forestall those ravages.
and don't forget core training. (abdominal work)
and of course, no one here smokes, so that's not an issue. (you wouldn't believe the added degree of difficulty of doing anesthesia on heavy smokers)
I'm not trying to be preachy here, just encouraging myself and others with the dream of sailing to the Carribean on their own boats when in their 60's and beyond.
It's doable

I admire Steve's ability to retire in his 50's. I don't have that degree of "fiscal" fitness. Changing careers in mid life hurt that a lot. My portfolio is taking a hit from my recent Ericson 32 purchase.
Realities begin with dreams, Steve has a dream, and also a plan, so I'm 100% confident that he will reach it. See you out there steve, and wave at my balding sagging body 15 years from now.

Edited by - on

frankr
Captain

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256 Posts

Response Posted - 09/19/2007 : 07:30:26

I didn't really get started sailing till I was 56 (6 years ago). I hope to continue until I am 80. I have been blessed by the gene pool with good health and the sense to live a healthy life style. 3 years ago 4 of us (3 of us 60 or more years old) delivered a boat from Galveston TX to Ft. Lauderdale FL. It's not how old you are - it how mobile, alert and reactive you keep
yourself. You are only as old as you act and feel not by the calendar. You only get one trip trough life on this fantastic planet - live life to the fullest.
Answers:
1. Most definately capable
2. Very probable
3. Depends on the couple/ crew.

Edited by - on

Renzo
Admiral

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USA
621 Posts

Response Posted - 09/19/2007 : 09:32:01

Steve, Don't believe the TV ads. Not every one needs to wear adult diapers or ride around on a motorized wheelchair or live in an assisted living community when they retire. These things have their place and are helpful to those who need them, but if you are fortunate enough not to have congenital illnesses and have not abused your body too much in your youth, you can keep active well into your 70's and maybe even your 80's. I personaly have no desire to do a double handed ocean crossing (and if I did, I wouldn't want a mast furling main) but I have worked for weeks as a deck hand on a number of tallships when I was in my 50's and still sail, race and weekend cruise my C25 which has hank on sails. My wife and I still go on 25 and 50 mile bike rides, hiking and backpacking trips and intend to continue to do these things for the forseeable future baring any major debilitating injury or illness. So I say - go for it. Start now by getting down to your ideal weight, working out reguarly, and most importantly - don't believe the bull*** that your too old to do anything you want to do.

Edited by - on

Chris Z
Captain

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452 Posts

Response Posted - 09/19/2007 : 09:39:19

You know, this reminds me of a story. My friend Brian came over to our cottage one day. He was quite upset because one of their long time sailors had a heart attack and died on his boat at 75 plus. My dad would say that he was too old to be doing something like that and should have been staying onshore.

Well, there is more to this story. He died during their sunday races and he had just won the prior race. From what I understand sailing was his love.

So my friend Brian was quite upset about the whole thing. I gave my friend Brain another persepective on the whole thing. I said to Brian, first he died doing what he loved and second he died a winner.

As someone else said, don't postpone joy.

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 09/19/2007 : 10:02:30

Rita & I are both on the downhill slide towards 50. My idea of retirement is coastal cruising with the occasional blue water jaunt to get us to new cruising grounds. Probably on about a 40' mono hull, or possibly a catamaran. Rita's on the other hand is more family centric, closer to her family in SE Asia, and sailing would only be an incidental. She's also a reluctant sailor, she goes because I go. I'm reasonably sure she'd do little sailing if it weren't for me, although she did used to race over in Malaysia.

I think the eventual result will be somewhere in the middle. A smaller comfortable cruiser that's home ported somewhere reasonably close to her family, maybe Thailand. And a house there as well so she has a sense of being grounded.

We've had long conversations with our broker about our retirement needs, and he believes we're on track. Rita's retirement from her government kicks in at 55, and we'll simply re-invest that when it's disbursed. I hope that we can do our retirement at about the same time as Steve, 55 or so.

As far as physically, we both come back from our trips aching for several days (like right now). It was worse when we were trailering the boat, and I admire Paul & his wife for doing it on a regular basis. I view the aches & pains as a need for more regular exercise, we're both more sedentary than we should be. Her view is we shouldn't do so much so we won't hurt so bad, but the only way to build muscle mass & endurance is to exercise more, not less. While I don't like the aching, it just tells me that I got some decent exercise, and I know from experience that it gets better with time. The more you do it, the better it gets.

Edited by - on

kevinmac
Admiral

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USA
732 Posts

Response Posted - 09/19/2007 : 11:01:42

I was in a boat brokerage office in Seattle this weekend when this true geezer, I would estimate at least 75, came in the office. He said his cruising catamaran was at anchor for some repairs for about a week in front of the their office, and would they mind if his borrowed car was parked in their parking lot?

He had just returned from the south seas. He said he had circumnavigated once, and then cruised to the south pacific again, but on the way back he put the boat in a container and came across on a freighter, becuase he felt he was too old to do the north pacific again.

FWIW.

I think this is a very individual decision. I am in very bad shape, I could not do what he has done without serious physical training, and maybe not even then due to joint damage, but others are as spry and capable as I ever was in their late sixties and beyond. I take people of all ages out each week for a sailing association I belong to, and I met a woman who makes her living cleaning houses who was near 70, and more fit than I have ever been.

Man, I gotta get in shape, this email is depressing.

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 09/19/2007 : 11:28:15

I am planning to retire at 60 (in 10 years), buy a boat in the 36 to 39 foot range (maybe a Westsail 32 or a Cal 39), sail from the West Coast to Florida, cross the Atlantic, and cruise/live in Europe for 5 years. Then come back, sell, swallow the anchor, and go live somewhere probably near the kids.

I sail my Catalina 25 1500 miles per year now, 5 days per week, as training.

Edited by - on

zeil
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1314 Posts

Response Posted - 09/19/2007 : 11:44:04

Steve; you raised a very interesting subject... one that in each situation and with every person is a little different. However, there are a couple of common denominators... those are...
1)Health dictates and will set limits
2)Provision available to have a little “play money”
3)Kids and family to empower you to be free

Both Johanna and myself age 61 & 64 have lived full time, in fact we still do until our house is available again mid October, '07, on board of our '95 C250 WB for almost one year, traveling and sailing 25,000 km (17,000 miles) around our continent and loving it. (see our trip reports posted on this forum: Living on board full time and going South 1-16) What's next?? There are so many options available... we may just buy a 36-38 footer and live on board full time. Selling our C250 WB is the last thing we would consider since it provides the flexibility we want to go sailing anywhere & anytime where the weather is warm. Or another idea is to ship our C250 WB to Holland and canal motor/sail to Paris and beyond. Once in Paris then to contact this forum and see if anyone would be interested to share the boat and motor/ sail it back from Paris to Holland Another idea is explore Thailand by rice boat from Bangkok to the interior or visa versa... Or finish sailing the North Channel in Northern Ontario for an entire summer...

To illustrate that age is relative we met on our trip people of all ages with the majority being mature people with ages ranging anywhere from 50 to mid 80. People that seemingly met the above requirements were free to travel and live their dream. In fact we met Bill a 75 year plus person on the trip sailing a well cared for 35 footer sailboat single handedly through the 400 km (260 miles) Trent/Seven waterway system doing the “Great Loop” from northern Ontario to the Gulf of Mexico and back through inner and coastal waterways. We were amazed how he single handedly “locked through”, 44 locks without incidents. Not only did the boat work keep him physically fit but also mentally in what he loved to do... And he was not the only one... The trip was an eye opener and stimulant to both of us. Having and maintaining good health, with a little play money and your family life in order will allow you to see the limits of the sky

Edited by - on

tinob
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1883 Posts

Response Posted - 09/19/2007 : 12:16:57

And now from the seventy seven year youn/old who just came home from a sailing excursion and rode his bike home with an empty cooler in the tri-box in back. OUCH, hurts like hell but still dreaming. Uncorked my old Autohelm, hadn't used it in six years but I know now why I did...man what a relief not hanging on to the tiller for all those hours, just relaxing, watching the Monarchs starting their migration south and saying ,"you go FLUTTERBYES", I'd love to join you BUT, BUT ya gotta know that the time to go is when the dream is HOT, not waiting for the time to be right, the time is never right--just do it if it's that important to you.

Val on Calista # 3936, Patchogue,N.Y.

Edited by - on

Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 09/19/2007 : 12:41:50

If I die like I want to, please wipe the smile off my face.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 09/19/2007 : 12:44:01

I spent the past 3 summers sailing my boat and crewing on many different racing boats on the Chesapeake Bay, and tomorrow morning am starting a 3-4 week trip from the Chesapeake Bay to Bay City, Mich. on an old, gaff rigged schooner. A couple of weeks ago, I sailed a 28' boat through strong winds and choppy seas, while the coasties were assisting a small boat in the vicinity. At age 65, I'm retired and having the time of my life!

You don't have to live the whole dream, exactly as you dreamed it, in order to be happy. If your health or finances or other considerations won't permit you to do so, then live as much of your dream as you are able. It's all good!

Edited by - on

frogger
Navigator

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USA
184 Posts

Response Posted - 09/19/2007 : 12:46:27

If I die like I want to, leave the smile. It'll make everyone wonder why.

Edited by - on

ilnadi
Captain

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452 Posts

Response Posted - 09/19/2007 : 13:56:58

being closer now to 50 than 40 (how the heck did that happen?

) one is forced to (why am I looking at "Big Bust Ecstasy" in the amazon window to the left? And I don't mean statues either. How do they know I'm here

) where was I
One is forced to reassess and dream.<ul><li>first, admit there is no shame in technology. furlers, power winches, autopilots, generators, etc. say after me: I am not ashamed of using conveniences</li><li>second there is no shame in doing what you can where you can, as Steve Milby said, we can't all cross the oceans.</li><li>third, adult diapers aren't that bad, I had to use them (actually wear them, never had the pleasure of actually using one) when dry-suit diving</li><li>we seldom stop and think about what we are doing and why. I once told a coworker (in hi-tech telecom) "inertia is not a good enough reason" so we went off and became a real-estate agent. went from nobody ever saw him smile to a genuinely happy person. yet we come to work, get stressed, go home and complain we have no time to enjoy life</li></ul>As for my plan, the admiral (who's a bit younger than me) is busy getting a bunch of degrees and dying to work. When she does, I figure since we survive now I can make less and we'll break even. Then I'll have time to spend more time with the kids, actually learn to sail, etc etc. I know, I know, don't put it off but I think this is being realistic.

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 09/19/2007 : 21:05:10

Bob Bitchin has written a couple of interesting articles on this topic in recent issues of Lats & Atts.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 09/20/2007 : 09:25:16

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by kevinmac
 I was in a boat brokerage office in Seattle this weekend...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">...because.................

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 09/20/2007 : 17:38:57

I'm 56 and the Admiral is 56 as well. She is retired and I am a couple years away from it. I hate to say it here but we will certainly consider a trawler as an option as we get older. There are some nice 25-26 foot trailerable trawlers around. We saw them up in the San Juans and I must admit I envied them at times with no masts to raise and navigating from INSIDE during the rain. I love to sail but I can see a day when we will stay with a small size cruising craft but move to motoring.

And, the Admiral will never - I repeat never - venture out into the ocean so our crusing will be on lakes, ICWA, Puget Sound, etc. I just love being on the water.

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 09/20/2007 : 18:36:51

I once thought that I wanted to do the great circle route from Cleveland to Cleveland via Chicago, New Orleans, the ICW and Erie Canals. Probably won't ever happen since I'd have to do it alone. The Admiral just looks at me funny. Like Randy, I think a trip like that would be better done in a trawler, particularly down the Mississippi.

As for the original question, assuming no catastrophic medical issues, I really do think that age is a state of mind. As long as you think you can, you can.

Edited by - on

Seadog
Deckhand

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USA
13 Posts

Response Posted - 09/20/2007 : 19:04:04

I am posting this for my Grandfather who is 76 years old. He currently single hands his Passport 40 for day sails, and my grandparents (only two) just returned from their annual month long cruise to the Channel Islands. In my former life as a sailboat rigger we upgraded his main to a in boom furling system (way better than mast), installed a single electric winch to raise and lower the main this winch can also be used to bring in the jib/staysail if he is overpowered. We have rigged permanent preventers (lines attatche to boom) to tame an accidental jib and aides him for tacks (holds the boom while he brings the jib around. At age 66 they left for a 4 month cruise to the Sea of Cortez. This was to be the shakedown cruise for a South Pacific crossing. My grandmother decided she perferred us grandkids then foriegn countries. To keep my grandfathers dream alive they have taken multiple crusie line trips: 30 days from Peru to the Amazon via the tip of South America, two weeks in Alaska, Mediterrean, Caribbean. They are in pretty good shape, but don't excersie regularly. My grandmother makes sure they eat healthy, but it is the fact they go sailing which keeps them in shape. Sailing is a physical sport even if you are not racing, and yes eating chips and drinking your preference is lesiurely but triming a 135/150 genoa in 15+ knots of wind is not a stroll to the doughnut counter nor is anchoring/launching/retrieving. If you sail regularly you will be in better shape then if you stayed ashore.

Edited by - on

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 09/21/2007 : 11:56:16

Thanks for all the encouraging responses guys.

Edited by - on

stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Response Posted - 09/21/2007 : 14:03:51

I saw you sailing last week.

Forget everything you've heard here.

pause

pause

You were too old ten years ago!

40 is the new 30 and 60 is the new 40. Go for it.

Edited by - on

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 09/21/2007 : 20:45:28

You were lucky to see me, we only sailed for about 2 hours! I didn't see you though. Next time you see me please call my cell phone so we can meet in person. I think I'm going to get my sail club membership so I can race with you guys next year. Were you part of the 2 sailboat race on Saturday? (I was following them along to see how well I did speed wise).

Edited by - Steve Blackburn on 09/21/2007 20:47:14

Oscar
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2030 Posts

Response Posted - 09/22/2007 : 11:34:15

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Possibly it's because of my immaturity<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I resemble that remark......was notified of eligibility to join AARP last week.....

As far as sailing the boat, part of it is physical, part of it is skill. With the proper technique you can coax a boat to do a lot without having to muscle it. For the rest there will be either a really big winch or an electric version.

All provided you are a mean ol' fighting machine. I have been with the same group, more or less, of pilots since 1986..... Some of them have smoked/drank/blimped/channel flipped out and complain about not being able to lift their suitcase anymore. Others are reasonably trim, eat well, exercise and are good for at least another half century.

There have been octogenarian solo circumnavigators....Aside from bonafide debilitating afflictions it's in your head. You can do it, go for it.

Edited by - Oscar on 09/22/2007 11:35:47

tinob
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1883 Posts

Response Posted - 09/22/2007 : 13:19:07

Oscar, The first sign of debilitation is having difficulty getting the cover off your medicine bottle.

Val on Calista # 3936, Patchogue, N.Y.

Edited by - on

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