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Tradewind
Admiral

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USA
531 Posts

Initially Posted - 10/08/2007 : 14:29:10

1999 Honda OB, 8hp. Tried to start it last week, got 2 good pulls then it locked up. Pull cord wouldn't pull more than about 1 inch. I took the cover off, pulled the plugs to release compression and was able to move the flywheel almost 360 degrees either direction and no further. I checked the pistons and they move up and down when the flywheel is moved.

Ran fine last time I used it, about a week previously, with the green oil light and water flow. Used in fresh water.

Any OB mechanics with suggestions?

1998 250WK #331
CILCIA
Steve
Pensacola, FL

Edited by - on

DaveR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2015 Posts

Response Posted - 10/08/2007 : 14:45:05

I'm sure it's in neutral right?

Edited by - on

Tradewind
Admiral

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USA
531 Posts

Response Posted - 10/08/2007 : 15:19:53

Yes, it's in neutral, first thing I checked.

This may be a good excuse to get a new motor!

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 10/08/2007 : 21:27:27

No helpful ideas but a 1999 Honda has many years to go. Sorry, you need to fix it.

Edited by - on

Tom Potter
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1913 Posts

Response Posted - 10/08/2007 : 21:40:11

Steve, When you pulled the plugs and turned the flywheel, did you turn it with your hand or use the pull start? Just thinking that maybe the pull start might be broken and jamming on the flywheel. Another check would be to try moving your gear shifter a little both ways while turning the flywheel. I'm not sure of the Honda setup but on some OBs the shifter can be adjusted and that adjustment might be a little out and engaging.

You could also try posting your question [url="http://forums.iboats.com/"]here.[/url]

Edited by - Tom Potter on 10/08/2007 21:44:59

bear
Admiral

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USA
909 Posts

Response Posted - 10/09/2007 : 06:39:06

Steve, Two considerations. 1 Try taking off the pull starter rope assy and using a regular pull-cord on the fly wheel. Mine I think is held on with three nuts. 2. There was a recall by Honda a while back on flywheels cracking and possibly doing damage in that area. JMTCW.

Edited by - on

Tradewind
Admiral

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USA
531 Posts

Response Posted - 10/09/2007 : 16:19:09

Tom, I turned it by hand. I did fiddle with the shift lever, didn't make a difference.
Bear, that's my next plan, I didn't have the right tools with me to remove the 3 10mm bolts on the pull starter assembly, that's next.
Yes, a 1999 has many years left, I don't think it's a serious internal problem.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4304 Posts

Response Posted - 10/09/2007 : 20:37:53

Tradewind,

I'm on a C22 Forum also and the owner of the forum has a 2006 Honda 9.9 that did exactly the same thing. It did have something to do with the recoil having to be loosened up. I'll see if I can find his post on the subject and will forward to you.

Gary

Edited by - on

Tradewind
Admiral

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USA
531 Posts

Response Posted - 10/10/2007 : 11:33:16

Thanks Gary. I'll be looking for it.

Edited by - on

Sloop Smitten
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1181 Posts

Response Posted - 10/10/2007 : 12:51:35

Steve,
Another line of thought. There is a mechanism that operates to keep the recoil (or electric)starter from operating when the gear shift is in forward or reverse. There is some "linkage" involved with the mechanism that may have failed. With the cover off see if you can find the lock that performs that function and make sure it is working as you shift gears.

Edited by - on

Tradewind
Admiral

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USA
531 Posts

Response Posted - 10/10/2007 : 18:01:02

Joe, thanks, I'll check that also. I plan to get back to work on it Saturday.

Edited by - on

Tradewind
Admiral

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USA
531 Posts

Response Posted - 10/18/2007 : 07:49:35

Update... recoil assembly removed and start attempted with the rope, no change. I can get several pulls then it locks up, I rotate the flywheel backwards 180 degrees and I can get several more pulls before it locks up. I was able to get about 10 pulls several times with no hint of a start. Time to find some help getting it off the boat and to the shop.

Any more ideas before I hand it over to the mechs?

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 10/18/2007 : 07:53:56

Nope. Sounds like something in the valve-train. Report back with their findings...

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 10/18/2007 08:01:37

Tradewind
Admiral

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USA
531 Posts

Response Posted - 10/25/2007 : 15:28:04

Update...mechs found zero compression. Seems that mud daubbers built a nest on the timing belt, belt somehow jumped over some teeth on the timing gear while I tried to start it causing some internal damage, piston to valve contact. Major internal damage. Looks like I'll get a new engine for Christmas, though there's no hurry, the lake is so low that sailing is very restricted.

The mud daubbers got inside the engine cover through the pull cord hole in the cover.

Edited by - on

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 10/25/2007 : 16:09:52

Thanks for posting this Steve (Tradewind) as I have the exact same engine same year everything. Something else to check. Never wouldv'e thought this could happen, but it makes sense.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 10/25/2007 : 16:39:11

I can believe the daubers got into the cowl, but I'm having trouble believing they got inside the housing where the timing belt is. (That's the "valve train" I was suspicious of.) To bad--it was a nice engine...

...although now you can get an electric start.

Edited by - on

piseas
Former Treasurer

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USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 10/25/2007 : 16:57:47

Steve, sorry to hear that. So any thoughts for replacement? Are you gonna stay with Honda?
Steve

Edited by - on

Tradewind
Admiral

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USA
531 Posts

Response Posted - 10/25/2007 : 20:46:20

I'd like to stay with the Honda, 9.9 with 25" shaft but $$$$$$$$ I'm looking also at Tohatsu 9.8 with 25" shaft, I've seen it mentioned on this board with good reviews and the price is much less than a Honda. I'm leaning toward the 9.8 or 9.9 with the 25" shaft because I plan to move the boat off the Georgia lake to the gulf coast, Pensacola area, and the waters there can get a little more rough at times. I plan to look through posts on this forum about engines and collect as much info as I can.

Anyone experienced with Nissan? Any recommendations?

The belt that the mech talked about is the rubber belt you can see when you take the cover off, couldn't be the internal timing belt, sorry for the confusion.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 10/25/2007 : 22:40:49

The Nissan is a Tohatsu with a different decal. When considering the Honda, realize that the 8 is the same engine as the 9.9 except that the 9.9 is cammed for more high-rpm hp and the 8 for more low-rpm torque, which is actually more significant for a sailboat. Thus, the 9.9 is probably not the best choice for a sailboat and is essentially a waste of a couple of boat units--the price difference being a marketing thing, not a cost thing. (Both have more thrust than you need.) The Honda is about 10 lbs. heavier (as you no doubt know), has a considerably stronger alternator, automatic choke, front-mounted shifter, and the high-thrust prop that's designed for horsing a heavy, non-planing hull around a dock. From all reports, the Honda and Tohatsu are both good engines. But I guess I'm a Honda outboard guy--I've had two 8s, a 50, a 225, and a 2. (...not to mention an Acura with the same 225.) I do not profit in any way from this "testimonial".

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 10/26/2007 07:49:00

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 10/26/2007 : 08:37:56

I think that external belt is the cam shaft belt

Edited by - on

Tradewind
Admiral

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USA
531 Posts

Response Posted - 10/26/2007 : 09:11:06

Thanks Arlyn, that's the one the mechanic mentioned. Hard to believe it caused so much damage. I'm going to the shop today to take a look. Maybe they'll give me something for the carcass, parts maybe, credit towards a new motor.

Dave, Sounds like the 8 is the way to go and I'll probably stick with Honda. I saw one listed on trailorsailor a few weeks ago, 8hp long shaft but of course it's no longer there. I've always been a fan of Hondas, I was very surprised when my 8 broke. I've owned 5 Accords, 2 Honda motorcycles and even met Soichiro Honda when I lived in Japan back in the 60's.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 10/26/2007 : 09:20:32

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Arlyn Stewart
 I think that external belt is the cam shaft belt<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">From what the mechanic said, it must be. Seems a little odd...

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 10/26/2007 : 09:22:12

I'd hold out for the XL (25") shaft.

Edited by - on

Sloop Smitten
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1181 Posts

Response Posted - 10/26/2007 : 10:07:05

Only one belt on the 8HP Honda. It is the external belt and it does drive the camshaft off of the main flywheel. I did not know there was an interference fit between the valves and cylinders but it is easy to see how something as simple as a mud dauber nest could wreak havoc. A broken or loose belt could result in the same outcome. Even if the flap that is suppose to prevent access around the pull cord is in place a mud dauber could find its way in through the air access port. Might be worth screening that port and sealing any other holes.

Edited by - on

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 10/26/2007 : 10:11:20

You should probably get a second opinion on repairing your current Honda. If the piston and piston housing is ok then shouldn't it just be a change of valves? Sorry but kind of hard to believe you would need to throw it away so to speak.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 10/26/2007 : 10:41:55

I believe my Dad had an Fiat in the 70's that experienced a broken cam belt which in turn, trashed the valve train.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Tradewind
 I'd like to stay with the Honda, 9.9 with 25" shaft but $$$$$$$$ I'm looking also at Tohatsu 9.8 with 25" shaft,...Anyone experienced with Nissan? Any recommendations?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Yes...

As long as your considering other brand options, Mercury is the only manufacturer that has an integrated throttle/shifter...rotate throttle one way for forward, twist in the opposite direction for reverse...To me, this feature is worth its weight in gold (and boat repairs)!

Edited by - on

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