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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Weather Helm

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FarFetched
Deckhand

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4 Posts

Initially Posted - 10/09/2007 : 22:22:20

HI,

I just got an 86 Catalina 25 fixed keel. I was out on the sound last Sat with the in about 20 knots with higher gusts. I had a 135 and reefed main and the boat sailed perfectly up-wind just slight weather helm. However on a broad reach the boat became a handful with a significant amount of weather helm. At times I couldn't even get it to head down at all. Is there a problem with my tuning?

Thanks
Mark

farfetched Seattle WA

Edited by - on

ddlyle
Captain

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302 Posts

Response Posted - 10/10/2007 : 07:30:16

Did you ease the sheets (jib and main) significantly when you changed course to head downwind?

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 10/10/2007 : 09:30:38

Hi Mark, welcome to the forum.
I find that effect tends to happen to most boats. Your headsail was mostly blanketed by the main so your "effort" was not evenly distributed as when you were on the wind. With the main catching the majority of the force it could not help but try to pivot you up wind. Quartering seas can contribute to this a lot as they lift and try to push your stern around. The combination is "overwhelming" to the rudder forces and the lateral resistance provided by your fin. A full keel would probably not have near the problem. For me I find that I need to be very decisive on the rudder and put it quickly over to drive the bow down wind when I feel the boat want to round. Many times the helm should be treated gently but not at that moment, bring her down hard and see if you don't do better.
I find that when people learn to sail they are invariably told to head up in a gust but are seldom told that is only when on the wind, and that you must head down in a gust when off the wind. You obviously understand that. The only time I sheet out in a gust is when I want to hold a reach, when beating it is up and when running, it is down. I define running as that point of sail where you cannot dump wind by sheeting out.
I hope you enjoy the forum, feel free to tell us more about your new boat. An 86 fin is a very nice Catalina 25 model.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 10/10/2007 : 11:04:02

Frank about covered it... On a broad reach in heavy air, try sheeting in the main more than you would in lighter air, and ease the genny, so that more of the power is from the genny and less from the main. (Sorta counterintuitive, but downwind is different from up.)

And welcome to the group! (...from an alum.

)

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 10/10/2007 11:08:46

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 10/10/2007 : 21:05:43

With a reefed main and a 135, I'm surprised you had that much weather helm... did you have the main flattened and the jib powered up (loose)?

I learned to sail on a 'first model' water ballasted Mac 26 that would broach (wildly) if you didn't drop the main when off the wind, especially with a following sea. Not enough rudder, not much directional stability in the hull form. I've found the C25 is very well behaved by comparison. (on all points of sail)

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FarFetched
Deckhand

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4 Posts

Response Posted - 10/10/2007 : 23:14:40

Thanks for everyones input. It looks like I will have some things to try next time I am out in those type of conditions. From what I have read I think I had the main too powered up and not enough power in the Genoa. That combined with a 2 to 4 foot quartering sea and mid to upper 20 knot gusts it was just hard to keep the boat balanced. This weekend is looking good so I will give it another try. Overall though I have been very pleased with the boat. I have sailed and raced dingies and cats my whole life but since we just had our first child it was time to get a boat for the whole family.

Thanks
Mark

Edited by - on

stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Response Posted - 10/11/2007 : 01:39:00

I'm not technically savvy like these guys. I couldn't outline what needs to done as succinctly and clearly - so what I do when I am in a sailing situation that does not feel just right - I adjust things. I adjust sheets and traveller and outhaul and everything I can think of - you could probably call me a tinkerer as far as sail trim goes. My understanding is, that the tiller should be light in your hand and the boat should be between 12-17 degrees heel in 20 knots of wind. If the boat is not heeling and heading and handling well behaved, then I understand that I am doing something wrong.
These boats are well behaved and are capable of pretty much anything any 25 footer is supposed to be doing.
I did a lot of wind-surfing prior to owning a C25....I've applied a lesson learned ... Keep adjusting until it is sailing like it is supposed to.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 10/11/2007 : 07:26:50

Ya, Mark... In fact, not being a racer (at least on our boat), in 20-25 knots, we didn't "power down" the main--we left it under its cover (which itself is a sail in that breeze). The 135 drives her nicely by itself--you just can't point quite as high. Otherwise, it's like front-wheel drive. But that might not be quite exciting enough for you...

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 10/11/2007 : 19:35:23

double reef the main and go to the 110 jib.

Edited by - on

Jay Schkloven
1st Mate

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USA
84 Posts

Response Posted - 10/14/2007 : 10:26:01

I agree with have the jib up and keeping the main covered in winds up and over 15 knots. The boat sails great with just the one sail and if an emergency occurs or if there is a gust you can let it fly without getting out of the cockpit. If you have a roller furling system you can adjust the size to meet the conditions.

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Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.