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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Unstepping the mast and shroud tension

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EAbrams
Navigator

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USA
130 Posts

Initially Posted - 10/15/2007 : 19:16:28

Is it necessary to loosen the shrouds in order to unstep the mast? I will be removing the forward shrouds to attach the A frame. I’m leery of the mast possibly swaying to one side or the other and want to keep the shrouds tight.

This is my second season of sailing. I am getting ready to unstep the mast for the first time. Stepping it was a breeze with my A frame.

The first year I stepped I recall the shrouds were in place attached with the mast resting above the cabin. A friend guided me through the procedure as we stepped the mast by hand. I don’t recall how tight the shrouds were.

I had a marina unstep the mast last fall. They completely removed the mast from the boat and placed it on sawhorses.

This spring I used an A frame to step the mast and I attached the aft lowers and the uppers. I left the tension untouched until the mast was raised and the forestay was connected. Then I tightened the shrouds. Though the mast went up fine I did get some sway to starboard.

So to ask my question again in a different way. Can I leave the aft lowers and uppers tight as I lower the mast toward the stern using an A frame.

Ed & Michele
Spirit #5644
1987 Catalina 25 WK/SR
Peconic Bay, Long Island NY &
Oriental, NC

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 10/15/2007 : 20:08:56

I leave mine on - the greatest tension is on the shrouds when the mast is vertical. Due to the height of the mast base above the shroud eyes, they will slacken as you lower the mast aft; by the time the mast is back 30 - 40 degree, the shrouds will provide no stability.

Edited by - on

jerlim
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1484 Posts

Response Posted - 10/15/2007 : 20:21:49

Hi Ed - I'm on Peconic Bay too, at GPB marina, where are you docked?
Jerry

Edited by - jerlim on 10/15/2007 20:22:37

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 10/15/2007 : 20:23:40

Respectfully, I believe only a mast with a cam foot can be at its maximum tension when upright. The several inches from the pivot point at the center of the mast to the back edge of the foot causes the tension to increase as the mast is laid back causing stress on the chainplates and the rigging. I would never drop my mast, which I do at least once a year, without loosening my turnbuckles. I suppose if you run a loose rig it could be insignificant but I run a tight rig and have no desire to test it.

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Ed Cassidy
Captain

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USA
365 Posts

Response Posted - 10/15/2007 : 22:09:53

According to the manual ' When tailoring your boat always try to undo as little rigging as possible. It is necessary only to undo the two forward lower shrouds and the forestay before lowering the mast.'. I keep my boat on the trailer and follow this procedure. Because the uppers attach to the boat below the level of the base of the mast, as soon as the mast starts backwards, the tension starts to release. While the mast will rise because of the square bottom, the backwards motion of the mast releases tension quicker than the rising mast adds it.
Ed

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stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Response Posted - 10/16/2007 : 00:01:17

I detach the forward lower shrouds (remove cotter rings), loosen the upper shroud turnbuckles 6 turns and leave the rear lower shrouds untouched.
I detach the forestay, attach a safety line to the forestay - which runs via a pulley back to the cockpit via a cockpit clutch - which is operated by the admiral. I then lower the mast by myself, with no A frame into a stern mounted crutch.
Takes about 20 minutes.
To raise the mast I reverse the procedure, knowing that the rear shrouds don't need to be touched, the upper shrouds require six turns and the forward lowers only need to be re-attached. Raising usually takes 25 minutes.

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EAbrams
Navigator

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USA
130 Posts

Response Posted - 10/16/2007 : 06:33:32

Thanks everyone.

Of course now that you guys have explained it, it makes sense. Wish me luck.

Of course on Friday dead low tide at the ramp will be about 1 pm with high tide at sunrise ( brrr too cold) and evening (getting dark). I worry about having enough water depth to float my boat onto the trailer.

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EAbrams
Navigator

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USA
130 Posts

Response Posted - 10/16/2007 : 06:36:29

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by jerlim
 Hi Ed - I'm on Peconic Bay too, at GPB marina, where are you docked?
Jerry
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I'm across the bay behind the Lobster Inn in Southampton. Not really a marina. About 40 slips. Water no electric. We have been there for two years and the owner has been telling us he is retiring since we arrived. First it was the Town of Southampton was going to buy it and this year the Peconic Land Trust. At least he does not want to sell it to developers. He has many offers.

We put in at the So Jamesport boat ramp. It's a combo New York State/ Town of Riverhead ramp. Last year we used Great Peconic Bay Marina to haul it onto our trailer.

Edited by - on

MattL
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 10/16/2007 : 12:03:44

All I do is remove the forward shrouds, attatch my A frame and jib halyard to a pully and rope detatch the fore stay and lower away.

Edited by - on

EAbrams
Navigator

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USA
130 Posts

Response Posted - 10/16/2007 : 13:58:39

Thanks again

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 10/16/2007 : 14:50:32

>"According to the manual ' When tailoring your boat always try to undo as little rigging as possible. It is necessary only to undo the two forward lower shrouds and the forestay before lowering the mast.'"

After years of launches and retrievals, my approach has evolved to be just the opposite. I clear everything I don't absolutely need when lowering or raising the mast. In my experience, the time lost to dealing with tangles, snags, trips, bound-up turnbuckles (etc) is far more than the time needed to get 4 turnbuckles threaded again.

This means on the C25 I only have the aft lowers plus the forestay attached just before lowering... and I raise the mast the same way. Bring the mast up with aft lowers only. Secure the forestay and then hook the rest of the stays up. If you take my approach, make sure you have bronze turnbuckles to avoid galling the threads on the shrouds. Stainless shroud ends threaded in a stainless turnbuckle body is a recipe for disaster. (Don't ask how I know this).

Edited by - on

EAbrams
Navigator

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USA
130 Posts

Response Posted - 10/16/2007 : 18:52:56

Thanks

I hoping to prevent any sway so I will try the "keep em on" approach.
Even though they will loosen up as the mast comes down, I don't want to remove them all together.

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ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 10/16/2007 : 20:53:30

"I will try the "keep em on" approach."

Make sure you remove the forward lowers... the mast won't go down with 'em on.

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tbosch
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163 Posts

Response Posted - 10/16/2007 : 22:34:41

Does anyone lower the mast forward? It seems like you would have a lot more useable deck space to walk the mast up. Besides, when I tip mine back I can't go too far because the mast hits the cover that the top slides under. Tipping forward would allow you to go all the way down to the bow pulpit.

So, would all of this work in reverse? By stepping from the front you could probably figure out how to rig the boom as a gin pole and use the main sheet blocks to raise the mast (with some line for an extension).

And where can I get a "how-to" on the a-frame?

Todd
'80 SR Fin "Dora"
slipped at Ashland, WI
housed in St. Paul, MN

Edited by - on

EAbrams
Navigator

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USA
130 Posts

Response Posted - 10/16/2007 : 22:57:18

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by tbosch
 Does anyone lower the mast forward? It seems like you would have a lot more useable deck space to walk the mast up. Besides, when I tip mine back I can't go too far because the mast hits the cover that the top slides under. Tipping forward would allow you to go all the way down to the bow pulpit.

So, would all of this work in reverse? By stepping from the front you could probably figure out how to rig the boom as a gin pole and use the main sheet blocks to raise the mast (with some line for an extension).

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Look right here in the technical tips section http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/tech/tech25/launch.asp

Here are more links
http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=12597

http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=3633

Edited by - EAbrams on 10/16/2007 23:04:16

EAbrams
Navigator

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USA
130 Posts

Response Posted - 10/16/2007 : 23:07:53

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by ClamBeach
 "I will try the "keep em on" approach."

Make sure you remove the forward lowers... the mast won't go down with 'em on.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Thanks

I guess I did not mention it above. I have to remove em. I attach the A frame there.

Edited by - EAbrams on 10/16/2007 23:10:56

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 10/17/2007 : 08:07:38

My technique was to check the "Unstep mast" box on the winter storage contract.

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SJ
Navigator

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USA
198 Posts

Response Posted - 10/17/2007 : 12:19:05

I lower mine aft. Loosen the foward lowers and keep the rest tight. I also set up a gin pole using my spin pole mounted to the mast ring. I have tracks on the cabin top for a #3 so I run 2 sheets from the forward jaws of the pole down to the cars and then aft to the wcabin winches. This gives me a stable gin pole and quite a bit of leverage when lowering the mast. This year Ialso built a "mast catcher" theat hopefully will catch the mast about ten feet off the deck so I can detatch the mast mast from the tabernackle and then slide it forward. Its getting close, I'll let you know how we make out.

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stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Response Posted - 10/17/2007 : 12:26:39

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">This year Ialso built a "mast catcher" theat hopefully will catch the mast about ten feet off the deck<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

A mast crutch or mast catcher is the only add-on that I use when lowering or raising the mast. I used an A-frame for the first 5 or 6 times, until I caught-on to how easy the process is and how much faster the process is if you have the mast elevated high enough with the mast crutch. Not having to install and uninstall the A frame makes it go lots faster.

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