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Newbie Questions Round 3

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barleyrooty
1st Mate

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64 Posts

Initially Posted - 10/21/2007 : 16:05:29

Well with all your help and a few glorious days out under my belt, I ended up with a few questions left over - more minor ones now thankfully...

1. How do I correctly rig the line which I assume is for reefing the main? This is how it is now but it doesn't "look" right:

2. The "deck light" seems to be missing. Am I just missing a bulb? What bulb do I need? It looks like this:

3. What is the correct means to attach the bottom of the jib to the furler? It came with just a thin cord that has broken twice at the point it attaches here:

4. The "re-furling" line rubs on the furler. Is this just because it was put on backwards?

As always, THANKS!!

Phil

Lulu, 2001 C250 WB #540
Keyport, NJ

Edited by - on

Al
Captain

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USA
269 Posts

Response Posted - 10/21/2007 : 17:44:42

Regarding #4, my guess is the furler's wound correctly, but the furler assembly itself is 180° out and needs to be rotated clockwise 180°...

Edited by - on

britinusa
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5404 Posts

Response Posted - 10/21/2007 : 18:58:59

Phil, the CDI furler uses that heavy line to secure the tack to the pin with the hole it in, but normally there is a d-shacle through the hole in the pin.

The line should be long enough to go from the top of the Jib, down the inside of the furler, down to the d-shackle, back up the tack cringle and then loop two or three times from the d-shackle to the cringle. Use the roves as an assist to tighten the tack downwards.

I'll see if I can dig out my write up on the method.

Paul

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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3444 Posts

Response Posted - 10/21/2007 : 19:44:00

In #1 I assume you'retalking about the line in the jam cleat on the starboard side of the boom. For my boat, that is the topping lift. BTW, I hate that cleat. It really doesn't hold very well. The reefing line should be fed the length of the boom and exit at the aft end. Mine is on the port. The other line exiting the boom nearer to the mast (on the port side) is the outhaul for the mainsail. At least, that is how Kaija is rigged.

I agree that the drum on the furler is 180 degrees out of whack. You really should fix that or your furling line will chafe to death a whole lot faster than you'd like.

Edited by - John Russell on 10/21/2007 19:47:48

kevinmac
Admiral

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USA
732 Posts

Response Posted - 10/21/2007 : 20:32:48

The line that your talking about in #1 is the topping lift, but it is incorrectly cleated. Pull the line aft (to the left in the picture), put the line in the cleat parallel to the boom, and then release tension. The line will jam in the cleat.

It is the topping lift on my boat, and I have had no trouble with it slipping, FWIW, just my experiences.

Kevin

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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3444 Posts

Response Posted - 10/21/2007 : 21:29:50

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by kevinmac
 The line that your talking about in #1 is the topping lift, but it is incorrectly cleated. Pull the line aft (to the left in the picture), put the line in the cleat parallel to the boom, and then release tension. The line will jam in the cleat.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I've gone to the boat twice to find my boom laying in the cockpit after doing just as you describe, Kevin. I've taken to tying off the topping lifton a cleat further aft on the boom designed for my lazy jacks. Since I'm a belt and braces kind of guy, I now leave both the jacks and the topping lift tied off.

I will say, however, that my topping lift might be too fine a line (1/4" I think) for that cleat but it's the line that came with the boat and is rather new.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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3704 Posts

Response Posted - 10/21/2007 : 23:38:04

Hard to tell from the photo but you are missing at least the bulb from the mast fixture and perhaps a bit of plastic too that surrounds the bulb. The bulb is halogen and is shaped like a mini flood light. I believe you light is a Hella.

Here it is in the West Marine catalog (which you should have as a resource):

[url="http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/producte/10001/-1/10001/59404/377%20710/0/hella/Primary%20Search/mode%20matchallpartial/0/0?N=377%20710&Ne=0&Ntt=hella&Ntk=Primary%20Search&Ntx=mode%20matchallpartial&Nao=0&Ns=0&keyword=hella&isLTokenURL=true&storeNum=5002&subdeptNum=9&classNum=236"]Hella Deck Light[/url]

Edited by - on

britinusa
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5404 Posts

Response Posted - 10/22/2007 : 07:12:06

John, Phil, If you are going to leave the boat with the boom hanging off the topping lift, and use the standard cleat as shown in Phil's pic, then just put a slip knot in the line just aft of the cleat, that will prevent it dropping the boom if the cleated line flops out due to wind on the line.

I do agree that this method of securing the topping lift sucks, awkward to loosen, awkward to tighten and as indicated, subject to release without notice.

Some have run the line out the fwd end of the boom and ran it back to the cockpit, a much better idea. While at it, consider doing the same thing with the outhaul for the same reasons (although we have never had the outhaul release unexpectedly.)

Paul

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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2980 Posts

Response Posted - 10/22/2007 : 09:00:58

Hey Phil

The Vee cleat shown in the pic is meant for the topping lift rather than the reefing line. That cleat also is designed for a smaller line than the 5/16 inch line as seen in the pic. The topping lift line is more properly about 3/16 for that cleat.

To answer the question about the reefing scheme... it is shown in the manual. The manual is online on the association site and has details and pics of how it is routed.

[url="http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/manbro/man250.asp#17"]250 reefing[/url]

Having provided the Catalina reefing scheme, I don't like it... it has too much drag. There are two solutions. One is to reduce drag by using small blocks at the reef cringles as described by Frogger on this forum and the other is to abandon the single line system for a two line as shown in this pic.

[url="http://www.stewartfam.net/arlyn/myreefing.jpg"]reefing schemes[/url]

I agree that there should be a D shackle on both studs of the furler. Be careful to choose one that has a rounded contour so that it doesn't chaff the small line from the sail tack. Also, that small line should be roved about three loops around the shackle and tack, which will provide a purchase effect when downhauling the sail. The luff should be tensioned using the downhaul rather than the halyard.

Edited by - on

barleyrooty
1st Mate

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64 Posts

Response Posted - 10/22/2007 : 17:24:03

Thanks for all the answers. Guess I didn't know I had a topping lift. I don't think this line goes up the mast anywhere, just through the forward end of the boom.

I guess this leads to a further question: how should I rig the topping lift?

The PO taught me to support the boom when not in use using a short cable and clip which is on the backstay and clips on to a hole on the aft end of the boom. Is this incorrect?

Thanks again,
Phil

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 10/22/2007 : 17:43:22

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by barleyrooty
 The PO taught me to support the boom when not in use using a short cable and clip which is on the backstay and clips on to a hole on the aft end of the boom. Is this incorrect?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">That "pigtail" is an invitation to some excitement you'd rather avoid... The excitement comes when you hoist the sail, forget to unhook the pigtail, and swing away from the wind to start sailing--then realize the pigtail is holding the boom with so much tension you can't release it until you luff back up. If the wind is really blowing, it could be more than exciting.

Rig a topping lift and adjust it so it goes slack when the sail is fully hoisted but holds the boom at a good height when you drop the sail, and then forget it. And forget completely about the pigtail. (I clipped mine to the backstay.)

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 10/22/2007 17:45:37

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 10/22/2007 : 18:51:17

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">That "pigtail" is an invitation to some excitement you'd rather avoid... The excitement comes when you hoist the sail, forget to unhook the pigtail, and swing away from the wind to start sailing--then realize the pigtail is holding the boom with so much tension you can't release it until you luff back up. If the wind is really blowing, it could be more than exciting.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

So, I'm not the only one who has done that?

Another option is a Boomkicker. We like ours.

Edited by - Nautiduck on 10/22/2007 18:53:37

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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2980 Posts

Response Posted - 10/23/2007 : 01:04:49

Phil, the picture is coming together now... I'm betting the line in that cleat is the clew reefing line. It could be left there if the cleat size works and then a line or reef hook used on the reef tack, making the reef a two line system, but that leaves rigging something else for the topping lift that will be wanted.

Here is a [url="http://www.stewartfam.net/arlyn/topping_lift.jpg"]picture[/url] of topping lift setup. Line size on the topping lift is 3/16" and Dave is exactly right, don't use the Catalina pigtail for a topping lift... it is to secure the boom amidship when no sail is aloft.

Edited by - Arlyn Stewart on 10/23/2007 01:08:10

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 10/23/2007 : 09:41:52

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Arlyn Stewart
 ...don't use the Catalina pigtail for a topping lift... it is to secure the boom amidship when no sail is aloft.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I did that with a snug mainsheet. No point in risking forgetting to release the pigtail.

I took an idea from Jim Baumgart's boat and added a little 3-to-1 adjuster at the bottom of the topping lift, using a separate 1/4" line and a little fiddle block that had a V-shaped "jam cleat" groove in its body. That made it very easy to lift and lower the boom--for example, to fold up my bimini. A stopper-knot in the line marked the lowered position and prevented accidental drops. Wish I had a picture......

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 10/23/2007 09:42:35

bear
Admiral

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USA
909 Posts

Response Posted - 10/23/2007 : 18:40:54

Phil, Just a comment here. In the picture showing the furler, the furler line once you move the furler assy 180 should take a left hand turn and be hooked up to a fairlead on the first stanchion and then fairleads on every stanchion back to the cockpit. Not sure looking at the picture that was happening. Mine is an older C250 so your boat may have a different set up.If I were a hundred miles closer I'd come down there for a day and help you out. Make sure you have a current owners manual and I believe the furler manual is available on-line. JMHO

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 10/23/2007 : 18:53:24

It appears to me that by removing the clevis pin at the base of the furler, turning the drum cover clockwise 180 degrees, and re-pinning it, the line will run freely through the opening. It also appears the line is being led properly to the drum (perpendicularly to it), but it also looks like it's wrapping toward the top, which suggests the lead to the drum should perhaps be lowered just a little. But I'm no expert on the CDI furler.

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Ray Seitz
Captain

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USA
416 Posts

Response Posted - 10/24/2007 : 18:57:30

Phil, (reference to #4) you will need(unfortunately) to use your mast raising system to remove the clevis pin. I have put the furler on 180 off too. I didn't feel like putting the boat back on the trailer so I did it from the dock with a pulley system rigged on the docks. It can be done but it takes a lot of pressure to pull the mast forward enough to remove that pin. That pin remains the most hated part of putting the mast up or down for me.

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Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 10/24/2007 : 20:59:25

I never had a C-250 or a CDI, but I'm wondering... Since the CDI furler has its own halyard and the stock halyard is superfluous (or for another sail), would it not be reasonable to (1) ease the backstay about as far as it will go, (2) hook the stock jib halyard to the stem fitting or even the bow pulpit and tighten it (which should unload the furler clevis pin), and then (3) release the pin, rotate the furler, and re-pin it?

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 10/24/2007 20:59:53

Tom Potter
Master Marine Consultant

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1913 Posts

Response Posted - 10/24/2007 : 21:23:46

yep, what Dave said will work. I've done this several times. You should make the other end of the jib halyard fast to the cleat on the mast to make the jib halyard and mast one. Also it will make the job much easier if you loosen the forestay turnbuckle as well. Turn the furler drum and re-pin. About a 20 minute job.

Edited by - on

Ray Seitz
Captain

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USA
416 Posts

Response Posted - 10/25/2007 : 10:19:27

You guys are alright. The collective brain always works better than mine.

I must admit though by rotating the furler around the hard way I learned a lesson and have not put it on wrong again...so far.

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