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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Please walk me through this mast step problem

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ChrisandCheri
1st Mate

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USA
30 Posts

Initially Posted - 10/28/2007 : 08:59:49

We did it!
As some of you know, this is our first boat ever. We bought it in July and are loving it. It is now on the hard in the cradle. My wife and I decided to take the mast down for the first time. Undid the forward stays, loosened the others. Remove the boom etc. We tied a line onto the jib furler and ran it back to the truck. My wife lowered the mast backwards err...(aft I mean) and I placed some fenders down to help me catch it. All went well except...

I had a fender up near the tabernacle and that created a bad angle for the mast, also the mast was leaning slightly. So what happened was the tabernacle is now loose. One screw came out about an inch.

I would like to remove all 4 screws and fix the situation properly. Could someone please advise. Sorry for asking such basic questions but I want to do it right.

Just want to make a comment about unstepping the mast. My wife was very hesitant in trying it. I went over our plan several times until she understood exactly what her role would be. It helped that it is now October and "the crowds" have thinned. The basics are down, now we will work on technique. I feel keeping her involved and happy is a key to a long sailing adventure I hope and pray.

1982 Catalina 25 std rig
Cayuga Lake, NY

Edited by - on

ChrisandCheri
1st Mate

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USA
30 Posts

Response Posted - 10/28/2007 : 09:00:43

oh btw, could someone touch on possible moisture issues regarding this project?

Edited by - on

Bill Holcomb
Admiral

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USA
769 Posts

Response Posted - 10/28/2007 : 09:39:26

Hey Chris,
Sounds like you had an adventure.........
On later versions of the C25, the factory through bolted the mast step using 1/4" bolts, nuts 'n washers. You might want to do the same. If so, take a pencil and mark where the mast step sits now. Unscrew all of the screws and fill the holes with epoxi. Then place the mast step in it's proper postion and use a pencil to mark the spot for the holes. Drill through the cabin top -- the two aft holes will be close to your mast's compression post in the main cabin; so, you might want to first drill with a small drill bit to see if you need to angle the aft bolt holes. Squeeze a bead of poli-sulfide marine calk on to the cabin top around each hole and place the mast step back in it's proper position. Put a bead of marine calk around the upper end of the stainless steel bolts. Insert the SS bolts and have someone inside the boat put on the SS washers and nuts. Snug all the nuts firmly and you're done.

Bill Holcomb - C25 Snickerdoodle #4839

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 10/28/2007 : 10:13:58

The good news, Chris, is that the mast step (tabernacle) does not require an extremely strong attachment. The screws/bolts involved must keep it from moving around, but the mast and rig hold it down. My '85 had two lag screws that went into the compression post, and two thru-bolts as Bill described. It sounds like one of your lag screws let go of the wood. One way you can fix that is to pour a small amount of unthickened epoxy into the hole (don't fill it), coat the lag screw with some light oil, screw it into the hole (without the tabernacle), let the epoxy set, and then unscrew the lag. There should then be a perfectly threaded (and moisture-proof) hole for the screw.

When you put it all back together, I would put caulk (like Boat Life) around each hole under the step, and then under each screw/bolt head above the step. (Oops--Bill already said that.

)

Now, to prevent this in the future, you may have already figured this out, but... You need a crutch of some sort that can "catch" the mast at the transom, at a high enough angle that it does not contact the cabintop while attached to the step. It was that contact that levered your step loose--too much weight aft of the point where it pivoted against the cabintop. Once you have it on the crutch, you can release it from the step and then take it off the crutch and position it as you wish. Maybe some others will say what they've used--I've done it on other boats but not my Cat. I would imagine something like a 2x6 with a notch, lashed to the sternrail.

Net: It's no big deal. An easy fix and easy to prevent.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 10/28/2007 12:25:56

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 10/28/2007 : 11:56:34

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by ChrisandCheri oh btw, could someone touch on possible moisture issues regarding this project?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Yes, it's very important to prevent moisture (rain) from getting into the plywood core of the deck. As I've mentioned here before, my suggestion is to create cast in place reinforced epoxy compression bushings or sleeves around each deck penetration.

There are a few minor variations on the details of the technique. The one I use most often goes like this. After removing the deck fitting, I drill the holes in the deck and core to twice their original diameter, but stopping the drill when the bit reaches the headliner.

(Another approach is to leave the original holes in the fiberglass unchanged, and use an 'L' shaped steel tool chucked in a hand drill to remove the core material around the hole. A bent nail, modified cheap Allen wrench, or cut off and sharpened motorcycle wire wheel spoke would work.)

I then use tape to seal the lower end of the hole from inside the cabin. (Be sure to get a good seal!) If you're concerned about getting excess epoxy where you don't want it, put down masking tape on the deck before mixing and applying the epoxy.

Next, I swab the inside of the hole with epoxy resin (mixed with hardener, but no other additives) using a Q-tip or similar to saturate the exposed wood grain, and prime the surfaces for a good bond with thickened epoxy. I then mix milled fiberglass with epoxy to a consistancy which is almost too thick to pour into the top of the holes. (A syringe can be very helpful in getting the thickened epoxy mush to go down the holes.) I use something like a toothpick to poke and stir out the trapped air bubbles.

The thicker the concentration of milled fiberglass, the stronger the end result. The thinner the mixture, the easier it is for air to escape, and to flow into voids. Although the milled fiberglass won't migrate into the wood grain, the resin can. So it's a good idea to go back and check the holes after a few minutes to see if any need topping up, as epoxy soaks into voids in the core.

If the holes end up very slightly underfilled, that's OK so long as they are filled past the core. If any of the holes are overfilled (with a slight dome of thickened epoxy), that's OK too. The excess can be carelfully sanded down later with a small drum sander chucked in a hand drill motor.

Once the epoxy has hardened, sand off any high spots, and redrill the holes to original diameters and locations. Adding a shallow countersink at the top of each new hole will allow the bedding goo to form an O-ring where the fastener enters the deck. But don't countersink anywhere near deep enough to cut all the way through the fiberglass deck, which would expose plywood core, and defeat the compression sleeve function of the cast in bushing.

If you have a precise hardware location and bolt pattern to be maintained (as with a mast tabernacle), then don't repair all the holes at once. Use at least two of the original holes to position the hardware, and then use the hardware as a drilling jig to get the new holes exactly where the old ones were. Then use the repaired holes to position the hardware when redrilling the remaining holes.

Reinstall the deck fitting with polysulfide goo around the holes and under the bolt heads, and you're done! I almost always use masking tape around the fitting itself, and around its footprint on deck to make cleaning up the squeeze-out easier. If you then wait for the bedding to cure, then slide the tip of a knife blade around the fitting, you can easily peel away the excess sealant with the masking tape.

-- Leon S.

Edited by - on

ChrisandCheri
1st Mate

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USA
30 Posts

Response Posted - 10/28/2007 : 17:25:23

thanks Leon, Dave and Bill. Thanks alot.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 10/28/2007 : 19:07:29

I am very sorry that any comment on this forum led you to believe that you and your wife could do this well by yourselves the first time. Please don't do that again. It takes many times with lots of help to understand the nuances, having the perfect pad at the tabernacle so you do not pry the step off the deck but protect the deck from items like a vang bale is one of those nuances. I am really sorry.

Edited by - on

stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Response Posted - 10/28/2007 : 20:10:33

When we first raised and lowered our mast, we thought the most important part was the A-frame. In my experience, the mast crutch is the most important tool.

First couple of times we raised and lowered, we bent a turnbuckle and snapped the end off of a mast track cleat.

Best part of boat ownership for me has been the involvement of my sweet Admiral. She was keen at first because I was - I fully expected that the glow would wear off and I would be into single-handing....Fortunately for me and us, she is as knowlegeable about this boat as I am. I challenged her many times to do things and not sit back and wait for me to do them.

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 10/30/2007 : 14:08:52

I did an entire repair in this area a number of years ago. You didn't rip the thing out of the deck so you won't have to go to the extreme we did however this post might give you some insite with regard to the area being wet. Be sure to read the comments too because apparently there were some things we could have done better.

http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=9375&SearchTerms=step,oak,glass

Edited by - on

ChrisandCheri
1st Mate

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USA
30 Posts

Response Posted - 10/30/2007 : 21:14:13

Frank, the surveyor told me this summer there was some moisture(not much) near the mast step. He recommended I redo the tabernacle and the solar fan as well as the electrical connectors(RV type now, another story later) during my winter layover. I now have an impetus for taking care of this. We consider our unstepping the mast a success! I would never have known the mast only weighed 60 lbs. if not for this forum. Everyone's openness to sharing their ideas have given us the confidence we needed. I can look back and say that I did know I needed a crutch, and now I know exactly why. LOL Thanks again to everyone's response.

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 10/30/2007 : 22:10:29

As far as making a crutch, on my old catamaran, I used a section of 3" PVC pipe with a "Y" on the end with 6" extensions on the other end of the "Y" to catch the mast. I'm not sure how you'd go about supporting the crutch while you were lowering the mast. On my catamaran, I velcoed it to the starboard rudder, and braced it on the pavement, but that's not very practical with our boats. Maybe a second "Y" at the bottom with a couple of longer pipes with end caps to cushion them.

Edited by - on

stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Response Posted - 10/31/2007 : 15:25:59

If you need a picture of a mast crutch, let me know. I have a very good one, made by the PO. It fits into the rudder gudgeons and rests against the pushpit.
Its made of 1" square metal tubing with some bolts welded on and bent to fit into the gudgeons. It is extendable - I keep it zap-strapped to my trailer when not in use. It could probably be made by a highschool kid in shop class.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 10/31/2007 : 20:42:11

Stampeder's idea sounds good for assisting in raising the mast... If all you want is something to catch it while unstepping (to prevent ripping up the tabernacle), I think it could be much simpler--like one board.

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