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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

inspecting keel cable

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newell
Navigator

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USA
113 Posts

Initially Posted - 10/17/2007 : 13:07:41

My boat is out of the water now and I wanted to take a look atthe keel cable/keel attachment point. Unfortunately with the boat on the trailer, I can not get the keel to drop down far enough to visualize the connection point. About the only thing that I can think of is to jack up the back end of the boat (while on the trailer) so that I can drop the keel down a bit farther. Has anyone else ever had this problem and resorted to tis solution?? I did it once with a C22 and it worked but this boat is a good bit more heavy.

newell

Newell
1980 C25 SR/SK
AVALON

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 10/17/2007 : 16:16:07

Just hang it and have a look.

Edited by - on

Happy D
Admiral

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921 Posts

Response Posted - 10/17/2007 : 18:55:03

Do you let all the weight down like that Frank or do you still have a little tension on the cable? I always wonder about letting the keel all the way down to slach cable.

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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 10/17/2007 : 19:16:38

Taught = hum
Slack = quiet
your call

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stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Response Posted - 10/17/2007 : 23:05:07

Because of the importance of the keel cable system, I believe you should get your boat to a facility that would allow you to fully and properly inspect all the parts and then to make proper repairs where and if necesary.
At our lake, we have a sling hoist available, I've used it for inspection and for painting. Getting you boat in the air will allow you check the shaft and shims and integrity of the 'hinge' components.
This spring however, knowing that my hinge components were sound, I changed my cable, hose and ball while Labarca was on the trailer.

When in the water, I keep my cable loose.

Edited by - on

Justin
Admiral

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502 Posts

Response Posted - 10/18/2007 : 08:28:51

About cable tension... I lower it all the way until it is slack, then put about a 1/4-1/2 turn on the winch to put just a slight amount of tension on the cable. My reason is in case the keel were to ever get pushed back and free fall from either hitting something submerged or EXTREMELY high seas, the impact will be distributed between the keel cable/winch and the keel trunk. If the cable is slack, then you will probably have a greater chance of having trunk damage, possibly even sinking the boat.

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newell
Navigator

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USA
113 Posts

Response Posted - 10/18/2007 : 08:51:27

Great posts, guys but no one has approached he real issue. has anyone ever tried to jack the back of the boat up while it was on the trailer??

newell

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stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Response Posted - 10/18/2007 : 13:43:15

I've jacked both the front and back end up.

For the stern: It took a lot of monkeying around with wood to get the job done. I borrowed a barrel from the marina, placed some wood on top, used a bottle jack to raise the stern about 1 foot. I felt very uneasy about the whole process.

Raising the bow was a little easier because I was able to get my 2 ton floor jack to fit under the bow, by situating it on the cross beams of the trailer. Bow is of course lighter, making the process much simpler. I raised it about 1 foot. I'd raise the bow again, if needed, but not the stern.

What I learned: Find a sling hoist.(or similar purpose built support system)

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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 10/18/2007 : 14:10:00

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by newell
 Great posts, guys but no one has approached he real issue. has anyone ever tried to jack the back of the boat up while it was on the trailer??

newell
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Sorry I guess we were talking around the question. As Stampeder said, find a sling; as I did. People have jacked them up but the process depends on the type of trailer; bunk, roller, pad? Equipment available to you and your location; level, paved, etc. So it is a fairly involved question.
For what it is worth I was able to see and fully access my swing cable connector while on the trailer. Maybe you should raise the Bunks, pads, rollers, while the boat is off the trailer so you have a little room when the boat is on. Man I love fins.

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Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 10/18/2007 : 15:01:42

HIghly doubtful that you'll have cable failure at the connection point of the keel. You should be able to let the keel all the way down on the trailer and check the slacked cable for meat hooks. Then look at the turning ball etc before cranking it up. If any of that needs replacing the connection becomes a mute point. You still have to figure out how to get the thing replaced - but lifting it off the trailer becomes secondary.

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Scumbucket
1st Mate

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USA
53 Posts

Response Posted - 10/18/2007 : 16:51:40

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
Stampeder

What I learned: Find a sling hoist.(or similar purpose built support system)

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I 100% agree, I as well felt very uneasy about to this. Done it and it worked but I will not do it again with my type of trailer.

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ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 10/18/2007 : 19:45:30

"has anyone ever tried to jack the back of the boat up while it was on the trailer??"

I've done this multiple times. If you have an EZ loader trailer a couple bottle jacks can be used to lift the boat using the roller assemblies. PM me and I'll send you some photos.

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Happy D
Admiral

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921 Posts

Response Posted - 10/18/2007 : 20:55:57

You can jack the back of the boat up easy. I used a floor jack and a 4" square piece of oak I have and place it under the skeg.
Make sure you slack the keel cable so your not lifting that weight also. Let the keel all the way down on the trailer.
You should be able to lift the stern of the boat high enough to look at the keel connection point.
I'll jack the boat up tomorrow and I'll post a photo for you.

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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 10/18/2007 : 22:18:25

Remember that skeg is hollow.

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Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 10/19/2007 : 06:38:58

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Frank Hopper
 Remember that skeg is hollow.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

It is still pretty sturdy - it was the location for our 6th jackstand for 5 years.

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Happy D
Admiral

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921 Posts

Response Posted - 10/19/2007 : 16:11:52

Ok, here we go. Never mind the news paper on the boat, I'm re-doing the boot top and cove stripe with new gelcoat. That's a primer coat.

First I lifted the front of the boat and removed the bow block support. The boat tips down in the front a little.

Then I jacked up the back of the boat, WITH THE KEEL SITTING ON THE TRAILER. Keel must be sitting on the trailer with slack in the cable.

Here you can see I lifted the boat completely off the rear rollers. The vertical post is loaded on the corner only. Not safe. After you get the boat up, you could raise the rear rollers and sit the boat back down. That would be much safer than working with the boat on the jack like I have it pictured here.

And here is the cable attachment lug.

Now I have it easy, I have the boat in the shop on a concrete floor. The jack did want to roll out from under the boat but I could have jacked it up higher. The boat is pivoting on the forward rollers. The bow is going down because I removed the bow block and support. The boat kind of balances on the forward rollers.

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ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 10/19/2007 : 18:52:22

Look at the above photo.. now lay a timber across the trailer frame and put a bottle jack under the forward end of each of the aft roller frames. Extend the jacks and the forward rollers will lift the boat enough to service the keel cable attachments. Use wooden blocking between the jacks and the trailer frames so they won't slide (steel on steel is slippery). put some safety blocking and/or screw jacks in place before you crawl under it. NEVER trust a hydraulic jack with your life or limb.

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Michael B
Deckhand

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USA
13 Posts

Response Posted - 10/19/2007 : 21:55:02

Maybe it's just me but I would tow my boat to a boat yard and pay to have them pick the boat up with a sling so I could inspect it.Seems a whole lot safer and easier to me.

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Scumbucket
1st Mate

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USA
53 Posts

Response Posted - 10/19/2007 : 22:27:50

It is :)

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stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Response Posted - 10/20/2007 : 01:56:41

Happy D : Thank you for the picture of the Vertical post under the skeg.

I am in awe.

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Happy D
Admiral

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921 Posts

Response Posted - 10/20/2007 : 08:28:17

I've done this more than once. Now I don't stick my hand under there without blocking it up. With the keel down on the trailer, the boat is lighter than you think. I had to roll my boat 8" or so to starboard to get it strait on the trailer and I was surprised at how easy it was to jack up and roll. As Frank said, the skeg is hollow but the fiberglass there is thick.
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Maybe it's just me but I would tow my boat to a boat yard and pay to have them pick the boat up with a sling so I could inspect it. Seems a whole lot safer and easier to me.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Michael B. It is for sure, but here where I live, it's $7.25/ft. LOA plus $50.00/hr labor, minimum 2 hrs. to lift the boat. You don't get to do the labor, they do.

I would rather do this outside so the jack would dig into the ground and not roll around but this is what I have to work with.
I work with heavy machinery for a living and lift heavy stuff all the time, so I guess I'm just used to it. I only had to jack it up about 6". If you have to go a long way, do something else.
I look at things like, keep the load level. Raise the front of the trailer so when you lift the back of the boat, you're bringing it up level, make sure everything is dry and not slippery etc....
Lift it a little and block it, lift it a little more and block it again.

Actually, two beam clamps, a long strap, a chain fall, and 10 minutes under a bridge, and your all set!

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clayC
Navigator

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USA
207 Posts

Response Posted - 10/31/2007 : 16:48:19

I think its best to inspect that conection

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Justin
Admiral

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502 Posts

Response Posted - 11/01/2007 : 07:52:33

Wow, that is not the standard eye bolt that belongs there! Good thing you inspected that. Were you able to remove it without any problems?

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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 11/01/2007 : 08:19:28

I suspect most swing keel failures are based on that kind of incompetence, the one at our club came from a galvanized eye being used there. I never cease to be amazed at what people will do to save a dollar. The thing that terrifies me is the idea that a marina might do something like that and an owner simply trust them.
I am willing to bet that a large percentage of us watch our mechanics when they work on our cars.

Edited by - Frank Hopper on 11/01/2007 08:21:08

clayC
Navigator

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USA
207 Posts

Response Posted - 11/01/2007 : 15:23:24

I sprayed PB Breaker on it every day for a week or so and then tries to remove it with a large wrench. It broke off with hardly any effort. I am sure that all of the advice I had read on this form before I launched Kamalla saved Her. I am kind of "jump first, look later" kinda of guy so I really do appreciate all of the INSPECT YOUR CABLE advise I received. I used the CD retro fit and after three seasons it still looks great. And believe me I check it!

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