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OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3466 Posts

Initially Posted - 10/30/2007 : 05:22:45

My boat does not have a boom vang. Eventually, I would like to install one. I believe the mast step has an eye for attaching one but not the boom. Anyone else installed one and had to attach to the boom where there was no fitting ?

I am also getting ready to buy new sails and was planning on getting a main sail with a loose foot which may make a boom attachment for a boom vang easier by attaching a line, etc around the boom but I believe I read somewhere that the attachment to the boom should not be at a single point on the boom because it puts a lot of stress at that point and should instead be attached with a bracket (metal band believe riveted or with screws) to absorb the loads on the boom.

Also, many years ago, I recall a product sold that was for a boom vang attachment to the boom. It was a sort of horseshoe bracket that was slid onto the boom and then rested on it with an attachment point for the boom vang. Do they still sell that somewhere ? It would seem that would be the easiest way with basically no holes to drill on the boom to make that attachment and would (sort of) have more than one contact point to absorb stresses. Though, my thought about having one contact point is that ideally the bracket should be mounted on a diagonal on the boom with rivets or screws at two different points on each side of the boom. I just hate putting holes on the boom - concerned about destroying it's integrity - making it weaker at those points.

Larry
'89 Robin's Nest#5820, Potomac River/Quantico, Va
http://catalina25.homestead.com/olarryr.html

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 10/30/2007 : 08:09:17

Larry, the horseshoe you refer to was most likely for the mainsheet, it allows boom roller furling.

Is there not a groove or spine along the underside of your boom where you could attach a strap or shackle for the boom end of the vang? The lower end of the vang can attach to the groove on the aft side of the mast near the foot.

Paul.

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3466 Posts

Response Posted - 10/30/2007 : 08:58:11

Paul,

I did not notice any attachment point but I will be on the boat today (after work- hope to leave early) and will check for a groove, etc. There is an attachment point (appears to be) on the mast step but believe not on the boom.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 10/30/2007 : 09:24:08

What you want is a boom bail...

One hole all the way through the boom, and a bolt with a nylock nut does it. (Don't tighten the nut enough to compress the boom.) Anything less is likely to be inadequate for the tension from a multi-part vang.

If the "horseshoe" had plastic rollers on its ends, it was indeed a "claw" for a mid-boom mainsheet with boom roller-reefing.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 10/30/2007 09:29:10

bbriner
Captain

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349 Posts

Response Posted - 10/30/2007 : 10:27:19

I used those V-shaped metal brackets that screw into the mast and boom... about 4 screws on either side. That was in 2004 and have not had any problems with them (and I use the vang a lot).

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3466 Posts

Response Posted - 10/30/2007 : 10:35:58

Dave,

The horseshoe I remember from many years ago did have rollers ! I guess you are right - It was for a mid-boom mainsheet.

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3466 Posts

Response Posted - 10/30/2007 : 10:43:40

Bill & Dave,

I guess the way to go is to drill holes and attach either the boom bail or the V-Bracket. I hate drilling holes into the boom...but I guess I guess I will have to do that and...that's what some boats came with if a boom vang was ordered or some attached their own in same fashion as Bill did in 2004.

My thought is that if I am making the investment in new sails, it is then time I get full advantage of them and get a boom vang.

Thanks for your input.

Edited by - on

DaveR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2015 Posts

Response Posted - 10/30/2007 : 10:48:38

Seems like this subject has been covered pretty well but I'll attach a pic of my vang.

Edited by - on

jerlim
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1484 Posts

Response Posted - 10/30/2007 : 13:27:10

Larry - did you have difficulties controling the shape of the mainsail w/o the use of a vang?

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 10/30/2007 : 14:03:52

Jerry: A vang is most useful when on a broad reach or run, where the mainsheet has very little downward purchase against the boom. On a beat, it can help somewhat, but the mainsheet is doing pretty much the same thing.

Larry: If you have a pop-top, you'll want to use a snap-shackle at the boom end of the vang so you can get it out of the way to raise the top. Dave's hook might not be what I'd choose, but it's the same idea. I think somebody said after unhooking the vang, they used it as a safety line to keep the pop-top from falling.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 10/30/2007 : 15:24:34

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dave Bristle
 Jerry: A vang is most useful when on a broad reach or run, where the mainsheet has very little downward purchase against the boom. On a beat, it can help somewhat, but the mainsheet is doing pretty much the same thing.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Only to the point where the traveller, if you want to call it that, hits the end of its travel on the leeward side. Past that point, the traveller has little effectiveness over leech tension which may require vang use earlier than if you had a full length cockpit traveller.

Edited by - on

Stu Jackson C34
Admiral

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844 Posts

Response Posted - 10/30/2007 : 18:36:01

If you use the tang, I recommend putting a bushing on the bolt that you run through the boom. This requires a slightly larger hole. The advnatge is that the larger hole has more circumference, and therefore, more surface area, so that the load from that one bolt is more spread out along the wall of the boom.

Edited by - on

bbriner
Captain

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349 Posts

Response Posted - 10/30/2007 : 19:25:39

Dave's picture shows the 'v-shaped bracket' I was referring to on the boom. I used one of those for the mast too. I use SS carabiner clips on the vang in case I need to detach it in a hurry for a MOB situation (thankfully have not had to do that but have used it as a preventer too at times).

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3466 Posts

Response Posted - 10/30/2007 : 23:01:07

Thanks for all the comments ! I was sailing today from about 400pm till 830pm.

First, my boom has no groove, etc on the bottom, so I have to drill holes/attach a bracket. I am considering the V-Bracket with the screws. I think it is pretty common that when on a broad reach without a boom vang, the boom rises and the sail twists a bit. You can sail that way - no problem, but believe that the purpose of the vang is to keep the boom lower to maintain a better sail shape and that probably then drives the boat a bit faster.

I have a pop top and holding it up with that twist knob fastener in the mast groove seems fine. Anyway, I was thinking of getting a boom vang with the snap shackles, but I will probably research a bit the the different boom vangs available.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 10/31/2007 : 06:21:06

Larry, if you have the stock mainsheet then it is time to upgrade it to something nice, Carbo Blocks or the old fashioned Harken Classic blocks, (ebay is a great place to shop for these), you then move the old mainsheet to the vang position, a snap shackle is easy to add.

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3466 Posts

Response Posted - 10/31/2007 : 10:46:34

Frank,

I have not really looked to see what the difference is between the mainsheet blocks and arrangement compared to a boom vang. But they basically do the same thing - adjust and lock and allow for easy readjustment.

I am going to stop by my boat today because I am curious to take another look at what the PO left in a storage bin under my port bunk. It appeared to be a new mainsheet but as I recall, it did not seem like all that much different, at the most equal to the mainsheet quality blocks and no reason to replace my old one with it. So...sort of out of sight out of mind thing. But you raise a good point in that I could use this opportunity to upgrade the mainsheet and use the old one for a boom vang using snap shackles or use the one in the storage bin for either a new mainsheet or boom vang.

It crossed my mine that the PO may have bought the new mainsheet or maybe it is a boom vang (but I don't think so) to use it as a boom vang and then realized he had no boom fitting to connect it to...and never got around to installing a fitting.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 10/31/2007 : 13:25:03

From what I can discern, Catalina used to be in bed with Seaway like they are with Garhauer now. Our old 25s came with seaway blocks which were cheap copies of Harken. The kick is that the old Seaway blocks have held up really well so the mainsheet that came with your boat probably works as well as the day it was installed. Both of my 25s had three part boomvangs and four part mainsheets. I think the boat should have a four part vang so moving the old mainsheet to the vang position works out really well. I have tried a Schaefer 700 series mainsheet and while it was spectacular it was heavy and and once I put the bimini on it bothered me to have such a heavy metal block rubbing against the aft bimini support so I went back to an old school Harken set-up. I use the 042 hex fiddle with becket

and the 028 fiddle. Both are often on ebay at good prices since the new Carbo blocks are lighter and stronger.

here is an 038
[url="http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Harken-Fiddle-150-Cam-matic-Becket-038_W0QQitemZ120177617686QQihZ002QQcategoryZ31281QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem"]fiddle cam[/url]
here is an 030
[url="http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Harken-030-Fiddle-Block-with-Becket_W0QQitemZ230185180092QQihZ013QQcategoryZ31281QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem"]fiddle with becket[/url]
another 038
[url="http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Harken-76mm-Fiddle-Block-w-cam-Becket-038-NEW_W0QQitemZ320173621134QQihZ011QQcategoryZ31281QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem"]038[/url]

Edited by - Frank Hopper on 10/31/2007 15:04:35

Gambit
Navigator

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USA
160 Posts

Response Posted - 10/31/2007 : 13:44:31

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by bbriner
 Dave's picture shows the 'v-shaped bracket' I was referring to on the boom.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

The v-shaped bracket referred to above and elsewhere on this thread is a "mast hound". It can be found at Catalina Direct. I did not notice that reference but pardon me if it has been identified already.

We consider the boom vang essential for broad reaches and downwind legs.

A snap release at the boom is handy for putting up the pop top as well.

George

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 10/31/2007 : 14:13:27

I've done what others have suggested and moved the original mainsheet gear to the vang. After moving it, I ran the vang to my cabintop clutches, but after running into some issues with that setup, I ended up flipping the vang around so the cam cleat fiddle block was on the boom side of the vang. This made adjusting the vang much easier. I have since added a doubling block to bump the purchase to 6:1.

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 10/31/2007 : 14:54:27

"We consider the boom vang essential for broad reaches and downwind legs."

I also use it to assist flattening the main when beating. (sailing upwind)

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3466 Posts

Response Posted - 10/31/2007 : 15:03:11

I checked my boat's storage area for the mainsheet block system left by the PO. Turns out IT IS A BOOM VANG !!! My old mainsheet is made by Ronstan. The thing in the storage area is also made by Ronstan but looks like it was never used. It has snap shackles permanently affixed to both blocks. I also went to the West Marine store to check out the Boom Vangs and they happen to have just about the same identical thing made by Ronstan. The one I have has snap shackles and blocks identical to the $250 Ronstan Boom Vang sold by West Marine. But instead of a 4:1 ratio, mine is a 3:1 ratio similar to the $200 Ronstan that West Marine also sells.

Before I had left my boat, I tried to put the snap shackle onto the loop at the bottom of my mast step. It just firt son since the loop is not much of an angle with little clearance between it and the fiberglass. But it does attach.

West Marine has the Masthound (boom fitting) in their catalog but at least one of the WM stores in my area does not have it on the rack. I will check Catalina Direct since that should have the right size for the C25.

Anyone know where along the boom to mount the boom fitting ? What is ideal angle of the boom vang or what the length is from the mast to the boom vang attachment on the boom ?

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 10/31/2007 : 15:08:20

That is great news, you can do like Don and double the purchase. 3:1 is really not enough unless you set it while over the traveler. It just isn't strong enough to actually trim with. If you are over the traveler then the mainsheet actually pulls the leech and you can simply cleat the vang, trimming while the boom is out requires more purchase or young arms.
Old joke; what do you call a German sailing dog?
Vang.
Why that is funny to me I don't know but it cracks me up.

Edited by - Frank Hopper on 10/31/2007 15:10:52

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3466 Posts

Response Posted - 10/31/2007 : 18:04:02

Someone is going to have to explain the joke to me. If it is obvious...I hate to say...I don't get it.

As far as the boom vang goes, beyond me what the boom vang was doing in a storage area and not installed on the boat. Guess it was a project that never was completed.

I have a number of things going on right now...so I think I will set my goal to at least get the vang installed this Fall/Winter and then maybe look into improving the purchase some time later.

In the next day or two, I will probably order my sails from Quantum. I have checked out a number of sail makers and I see that one reason the prices differ is in the Dacron weave they are marketing. Meanwhile, the cooler weather has started to come into town and while I am still sailing and will do so thru winter as long as the Potomac does not freeze over, I am starting in with my projects again. Left over from a project I started last Spring is a bunk extension. Ia m finishing up the supports and then onto the slats, etc. Then the boom vang boom fastener. I may not do much more this winter.

Edited by - on

Stu Jackson C34
Admiral

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844 Posts

Response Posted - 10/31/2007 : 19:52:30

Our experience was that if the boom vang has a long enough line (either just flopped -- good idea to reverse the blocks to put the cam cleat on the boom, BTW -- or led back to the cockpit), you do NOT need to disconnect it when raising the pop top, just move the line aside. Saves on some hardware and you can use basic D shackles instead of anything more expensive like snap shackles or any other kind of quick releases. The D shackles will also work if you want to use the vang as a preventer to a shroud base.

Edited by - Stu Jackson C34 on 10/31/2007 19:53:55

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 10/31/2007 : 20:22:58

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Stu Jackson C34
 The D shackles will also work if you want to use the vang as a preventer to a shroud base.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Sorry--bad idea! A preventer must be something you can release very quickly when something unexpected happens.

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3466 Posts

Response Posted - 11/01/2007 : 05:52:54

I ordered the masthound (boom vang fastener for the boom) from Catalina Direct last night. It was about $14 versus $20-22 from West Marine catalog.

Anyone know where along the boom to mount the fastener - Is there guidance somewhere that indicates this ? What is the angle of the boom vang or what the length is from the mast to the boom vang fastener on the boom so I know where it should be mounted ?

Edited by - on

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