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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 250 Specific Forum

Moving up question:

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AADIVER
Admiral

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USA
966 Posts

Initially Posted - 11/01/2007 : 01:30:50

Is there any one main reason 250 owners move up to a larger Catalina? Headroom? Larger galley? Internal diesel? More room for "stuff"? Or...?
For these reasons mainly, I'm "in the market" for a '86 C-30.

Frank Farmer
Long Beach, CA
aa.diver@verizon.net
http://mysite.verizon.net/aa.diver

PRETTY PENNY
'01 C-250 WK, Hull #558

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 11/01/2007 : 08:24:35

How about handling, this forum has often focused on the tenderness and weather helm of the 250. I believe a C-30 will sail much better.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 11/01/2007 : 08:51:12

All of the above, plus

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 11/01/2007 : 09:06:32

The reasons (rationalizations?) I have for someday moving to a C-30 or longer are: 1) An increase in the water line length makes sailing a bit more comfortable in choppy Lake Erie. 2) I like creature comforts. I lovingly describe my 250 as having the "pop-up camper" level of comfort.

The down sides are, for me: 1) More water line length, more difficult to singlehand. My wife and kids like to sail, not love to sail. 2) More creature comforts = more systems = more potential problems and I'm neither mechanically inclined nor wealthy.

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 11/01/2007 : 09:26:14

The 250 was introduced in '94 specifically as as a family trailer sailor with some "big boat feel".

The market that it was designed for, was quite weak so three years later it was redesigned into a wing keel model to appeal to the skipper who wished to slip or moor who wanted a "big boat feel".

The point... big boat feel does not equate to big boat amenities. In actuality, the 250 remains what it was designed to be...

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 11/01/2007 : 10:13:11

Having ample headroom is a big deal, when it comes to comfort. Also, a 30' boat that weighs over 10,000 lbs. is far stronger, safer and more comfortable than a 25' boat that weighs 3600 lbs., when you get caught out in conditions that prompt small craft warnings.

The general rule is that bigger boats are more costly to maintain, but that is less true with regard to C30s than with other boats. Often, the owners of 25' boats have to pay for 30' slips, simply because no 25' slips are available. Thus, if you have to pay for a 30' slip, whether you need it or not, then you might as well put a 30' boat in it. In addition, Catalina 30s are so numerous that sailmakers and others frequently offer discounts on sails for C30s, in order to compete for the market.

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johnsonp
Admiral

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USA
606 Posts

Response Posted - 11/01/2007 : 10:42:03

Frank
The reason I moved up was so I could stand up.
I used to travel alot with the C250 but now I would rather travel by boat only,now that I'm retired.
There is a lot of places to go to here in the Pacific NW to keep me on the go even during fall and winter.

Good luck.......and if it's money then know one should buy a boat.
With your tinkering skills you will have a fantastic time.

paulj

Edited by - on

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 11/01/2007 : 11:05:00

In my case it's mostly the headroom, aft berth height (WB) and head size (with a shower). The sailing comfort of a 30 footer would also be a reason. As John put it, my wife and kids like to sail but don't love to sail. Primarily because of the size of the 250 and that our lake is becoming quite redundant (small). My 9 year old daughter can stand in it, and it's perfect for her size. When I see her walking upright with room to spare in my 250 I envy her. I think I would go for a 32. Unfortunatly being a trailer sailor in southern Alberta is a must here as we don't have large enough lakes and like to trailer to the coast once in a while. My next move will be a city on the coast somewhere and my wife already knows that a new boat is in the picture.

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frankr
Captain

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256 Posts

Response Posted - 11/01/2007 : 11:15:11

We jumped from a c250 to a C36 two years ago. Great move - think of it as the difference between tent camping and a cabin. IMO I honestly think the 1989 C36 is much better built then the 2003 C250 I had.
PROS: The space is great - we could live on it if we wanted to.
Smoother sailing in chop and waves.
Inboard diesel, head, galley, handling, headroom
CONS: more expensive - insurance, dockage, maintenance
longer time to wax, paint, clean, winterize,
docking with the prop walk

Edited by - on

AADIVER
Admiral

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USA
966 Posts

Response Posted - 11/01/2007 : 15:57:41

Thanks, mates, I think we're all on the same page. I'm zeroing in on an '86 C-30 'cause it's an affordability issue; anything newer and we're over 30 thou. Also, I understand the '86 model has some "goodies" that later years are/were options. The max LOA for my slip here in Long Beach is 34'11".
The incoming Commodore of the California Yacht Club (get out your checkbook!) has an original owner 30 he wants 19 thou for. But it's got an original Atomic Four gas engine. Although some gas engine owners claim gas is quieter and cheaper to maintain and repair.
What say y'all?

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 11/01/2007 : 16:15:36

Internal gas engine==bad, diesel==good. Admittedly it might be louder, but who wants a potential bomb sitting in their bilges? If you do decide to buy it, if it doesn't already have it, invest in a sealed blower for your bilges and run it for several minutes before starting your engine each time. At least that way if you do have an explosive atmosphere, it'll be vented to the outside and starting your engine won't be the last thing you ever did.

Edited by - on

piseas
Former Treasurer

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USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 11/01/2007 : 16:49:50

Frank, I too wanted a 30 but at the time couldnt find a slip that size. A friend found me a 25' slip so got my c250. The slip was less than 10 min. from my house. A friend has a 30 in the same marina and I must say its nice inside for all the reasons mentioned. But for sailing around SoCal, I really think our 25'er is great. I especially like going over to the Isthmus and getting up fron on a string line. Yes our 25' is like a "camper" and I loved my VW bus when I had it. Would it have been nicer to has a motor home, I am not sure about than.
But you can set up any size boat for single handeling so that should not be issue really. BTW, do you have a buyer for your 25? Do you have any concerns about selling it? It seems to me in our area, it might be difficult. Good luck
Steve

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 11/01/2007 : 16:57:11

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Internal gas engine==bad, diesel==good. Admittedly it might be louder, but who wants a potential bomb sitting in their bilges? If you do decide to buy it, if it doesn't already have it, invest in a sealed blower for your bilges and run it for several minutes before starting your engine each time. At least that way if you do have an explosive atmosphere, it'll be vented to the outside and starting your engine won't be the last thing you ever did.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Well, that's a little harsh... There are at least hundreds of thousands, if not millions of inboard gas engines running in sailboats and power boats (heard of Mercruiser?) with very few incidents. And I can guarantee the Catalina has a blower. I knew of at least one boat where the starter was wired so it wouldn't crank unless the blower was on--a reminder. Diesels are nice--the newer common-rail systems are as quiet as gas--but have some downsides, not the least of which is algae growing in the fuel tank, dying, and then getting sucked into the filters and stopping the engine. (It tends to happen in heavy seas.)

All that said, the Atomic 4 is a bit long in the tooth... You might want to check out the cost of re-powering with a nice little Yanmar (not common rail, but a great value) and work that into your long-range expense plan as you make this decision.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 11/01/2007 16:59:08

piseas
Former Treasurer

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USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 11/01/2007 : 17:10:50

Dave, well said. Frank check out this site: http://www.yachtsurvey.com/GasDiesel.htm. It compares both.
BTW, the boat that caught on fire in Long Beach the other day, I assume was gas? Do you know the details since thats up in your area.
Steve

Edited by - piseas on 11/01/2007 17:11:39

johnsonp
Admiral

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USA
606 Posts

Response Posted - 11/01/2007 : 21:45:21

FRANK
Ask the owner how many times the 86 catalina has blown up or burn up since 1986 due to having a gasoline engine. 20 years old not to shabby and it's still afloat.

I would check these guys out and ask for Bob.

http://www.catalina30.com/

paulj

Edited by - on

AADIVER
Admiral

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USA
966 Posts

Response Posted - 11/02/2007 : 01:04:02

Steve, my 250's in a 30' slip in Shoreline. I "installed" a bow sprit which made me legal. Due to the length of my spinnaker sprit they measured me 31'. Times 11 bucks per foot, my monthly is $341.00. I'd save 11 with a 30!
An '81 250, practically original owner, would have no trouble finding a buyer for between 20 and 22 grand.
I think I've found a very possible 30 locally: an '82, tiller helm, 18 horse Universal, for 18 grand. I'm a-gonna check it out. Stay tuned.

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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 11/02/2007 : 09:24:07

I've been sailing with a friend whose boat has an Atomic 4 gas engine, and have found it to be very reliable, and easy to maintain. Parts are still available to replace everything except the engine block. You do, of course, have to sniff the engine for gas fumes, use the blower before starting the engine, and be careful not to spill gas when filling the tank, but all-in-all, they're a very good motor with an excellent safety record. I wouldn't have any reservation about buying one, but would take it into consideration in determining the purchase price of the boat.

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 11/02/2007 : 10:17:12

I think I would include, in the cost of purchase, sufficient funds to have the engine given a MAJOR tune up to include replacing everything that would have major wear issues. I'd REPLACE ALL the hoses, belts, filters, spark plugs, impellers, probably have the carb rebuilt, valve adjustments, etc. Certainly have any motor through-hull fittings repacked/replaced(Stuffing box, etc.). I'd have the motor cleaned if necessary to make it easier to detect leaks in the future.

As I've said elsewhere, I'm not very mechanical so, I'd feel more secure out on the water if all that was done.

Edited by - on

piseas
Former Treasurer

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USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 11/02/2007 : 14:20:07

Frank, a 30'er with a tiller. I love it. Another reason I love my 25 over larger boats and hesitate to upsize. BTW, I bet the 30'forum doesnt even come close in quality to ours. Oops another reason I love my 250 and hesitate to upsize! Good luck and keep us posted.
Steve
ps the fire on that boat in Long Beach did have gas engine.

Edited by - piseas on 11/02/2007 14:21:21

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 11/02/2007 : 14:34:29

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by FARMHAND
 ...An '81 250, practically original owner, would have no trouble finding a buyer for between 20 and 22 grand...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Maybe more--that'd be one-of-a-kind! (...a prototype, maybe?)

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At Ease
Admiral

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672 Posts

Response Posted - 11/03/2007 : 17:00:24

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dave Bristle
 All of the above, plus

.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Agree...but why a C30? I opted for a C320 three years ago, great move.

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delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 11/03/2007 : 17:31:27

I've been directed by the comptroller to not pay much attention to this thread, even if she's already uttered the fateful words: "we need a bigger boat".

That said, for me, the next boat will have several things that our 250 doesn't have.
First & foremost, headroom. Rita fits inside the boat just fine, but I have to crouch at 6'-2".

Second, a head with standing room as well. Using the head for me is uncomfortable at best. A shower would be nice, but not a deal breaker.

Third, wheel steering. Again this isn't a deal breaker, but I'm unlikely to buy another tiller boat again. I think of this more as an image in my head of what I want than a functional thing, I like the idea of standing behind a wheel surveying my domain.

Fourth, Inboard diesel. I really don't like listening to my outboard's various moods wondering if it's going to give out on me. It never has (this one), but every change in pitch causes me to worry. I feel that diesels are more reliable.

Fifth, navigation station.

Sixth, easily accessible berth.

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 11/03/2007 : 17:32:15

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by At Ease
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dave Bristle
 All of the above, plus

.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Agree...but why a C30?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

$$$$$$

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AADIVER
Admiral

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USA
966 Posts

Response Posted - 11/03/2007 : 17:37:53

6 B's and a C:

Buck for buck the best buy in a bigger boat: Catalina 30!

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