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Sink and Ice cooler drain line

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redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3476 Posts

Initially Posted - 11/05/2007 : 12:38:21

I've got a small black box on the cooler drain line on a cat 25 1985 and wondered what it is. The drain does not work and I'd like to replace it with a new line and back flow check valve. Any suggestions on with check valve to use?

regards.ray

Ray Swords

Ray in Atlanta, Ga.
"Lee Key" '84 Catalina 25
Standard Rig / Fin Keel

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 11/05/2007 : 20:28:34

It's a check valve--not very useful. But then again, neither is the "ice box". Most of us have used it for dry storage, and some have plugged the drain to keep water from entering on a starboard tack. I also believed it hindered the draining of the sink, since it shared the thru-hull and would break the syphon action that could help the sink drain. I was going to cap the "T" at the thru-hull and remove the ice box drain hose, but sold the boat before I got a round tuit. For keeping things cold, a good cooler is much more effective, flexible, and easy-to-use.

Edited by - on

Renzo
Admiral

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USA
621 Posts

Response Posted - 11/06/2007 : 06:34:19

I have the same problem. I use the cooler for beer and bottled water for the crew on race nights and when I open the sea cock after the race the water from the ice does not drain out because of the check valve, so I use a small hand pump to pump the water into the sink and then it drains out because the check valve is only on the hose from the icebox.. I am considering removing the check valve and installing another valve cock in its placs.That way incase I forget to close the sea cock I won't have sea water back up into the icebox. Although the icebox is not very efficient I use it for bottles and cans cold because it provides more secure storage in heavy weather conditions and when racing. I am a stickler for having items securely stowed when under sail. I stow food in a soft Harken bag held in place, on the cabin floor, with bungie cords.

Edited by - Renzo on 11/06/2007 06:35:38

redeye
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3476 Posts

Response Posted - 11/06/2007 : 08:11:20

It looks like the sink drains into the cooler box in spite of the check valve, go figure. I'll try replacing the line from the cooler to the through hull and adding another check valve. Right now the only valves I can find in around a 5/8 to 3/4 inch size are from US Plastics and West marine, and both are flap design check valves. I'd rather find a ball back flow check valve. Otherwise I'll probably have to add a ball cock to both lines.

regards.ray

Ray Swords

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 11/06/2007 : 09:35:39

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by redeye
 It looks like the sink drains into the cooler box in spite of the check valve...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">...another reason to forget about putting ice in that box. Even a new check valve requires some pressure to seal well, and you won't get much from the sink drain. I think one problem is that air can be trapped in high parts of the drain lines and get pushed down to the thru-hull, at which point it's pushing back, so water finds its way to the ice box drain, which is lower than the sink (even though both are above the waterline). Separate shut-offs used alternately are probably the only solution--if you're determined to beat it. Seems silly to me.

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redeye
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3476 Posts

Response Posted - 11/06/2007 : 10:05:38

Re: Silly is as Silly does

Yep... seems silly to hear so many people having trouble with such a simple ice box. I guess it needs a redesign, so I'm thinking and talking about it a lot before acting> Thanks for the suggestions.

I can't imagine leaving the ball cock through hull open below the waterline, so I'd like to run a through hull above the waterline and add a ball type backflow check valve, but I can't yet find one.

The cover is wood and warps when water is kept in the cooler for any amount of time so I think I'll look at a clear plastic cover of some sort, and maybe even a hinge.

regards.ray

www.rayswords.us

Ray Swords

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 11/06/2007 : 10:31:11

Howdy Ray,
I am like most people and use the built in ice chest as secure dry storage. I think I would even if it worked well because the angle of the dangle to get to anything in there is not something I want to do often in a day. Instead my french press coffee pot, electric kettle, paper plates, rolls of paper towels, rabbit ears, and other peculiar items live there. I prefer a refrigerator with cold drinks waiting for me and my guests. In it I keep slim fast, tonic, beer, OJ, etc. I have always found a V-berth to be an absurd shape if not an even more absurd place to sleep. The Catalina 25 is a very poor one so it at best sleeps one unfortunate soul... leaving a lot of wasted space at the head. I have my refrigerator tucked behind the port bulkhead where it live a very secure and useful life. Power to my 110 volt is easily run behind the toilet to the Port shelf behind the settee in the salon. You might want to check out a lot of my pages for other ideas and examples of Catalina 25 projects, both maintenance and "quality of life enhancements". Here is a photo of my fridge.

Edited by - Frank Hopper on 11/06/2007 10:34:06

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 11/06/2007 : 10:43:30

Frank,

Did you get the "fridge next to the loo" idea from your days at the frat house?

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redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3476 Posts

Response Posted - 11/06/2007 : 10:51:44

Cool.... it is always fun to see a good solution. Thanks for sharing.

regards.ray

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 11/06/2007 : 11:02:52

Ray,
Another option might be to use devices to contain the ice in the cooler. Freeze milk jugs full of water, etc. A couple of benefits to that. First, potable water to drink when it thaws. The cooler stays dry. The mass of the water in the jugs stays colder longer than cubes, etc.

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redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3476 Posts

Response Posted - 11/06/2007 : 11:14:40

Re: Drain Line for the Ice Chest

I'll run the drain line to a back flow check valve to a through hull above the waterline.

Plug the line that connects to the sink.

regards.ray

Ray Swords

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 11/06/2007 : 11:47:54

Why not just dump it to the bilge and pump it out from there? Beats putting another hole in the hull just to get rid of melted ice cubes

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redeye
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3476 Posts

Response Posted - 11/06/2007 : 12:23:07

It is a dry boat, no water in it at all. I do not have shore power at Lake Lanier slips and no auto bilge pump. I'd rather have it go outside.

regards.ray

Edited by - on

Renzo
Admiral

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USA
621 Posts

Response Posted - 11/06/2007 : 16:03:53

[The cover is wood and warps when water is kept in the cooler for any amount of time ]

Ray, before you replace the cover try this. get a piece of bubble wrap insulation,I don't know what the commercial name for it is but it is essentially plastic bubble wrap laminated between two pieces of aluminum foil, and it's sold at Lowes or Home Depot. Staple or contact cement the insulation to the bottom of the cover(the side that faces in to the icebox)it will keep the moisture from getting into the wood and provides a slight bit of insulation too. I did this 7 or 8 years ago and have had no more warping.

And, Hey Frank, keep drinking that Slim-Fast,after awhile the v-berth will seem bigger.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 11/06/2007 : 17:04:30

Edited by - on

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3476 Posts

Response Posted - 11/07/2007 : 11:46:22

Bubble wrap... great idea! thanks..

regards.ray

Edited by - on

Cate
Navigator

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199 Posts

Response Posted - 11/07/2007 : 15:48:44

I just experienced the sink drain problem last week when emptying out the water hold for the winter. Very slow drain. My ice box is still set up to drain to the thru hull and I noticed water hovering right inside the drain hole. The boat is coming out of the water for the winter and I am going to seal up the ice box. Not sure how to deal with the thru hull with the ice box hose and valve disconnected.
Ideas?

Edited by - on

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 11/09/2007 : 00:36:37

I think using/modifying the factory icebox depends a lot on your pattern of boat use. I added lots more insulation (inside the box), slanted the floor towards the drain, and added a 1/2" PVC ball valve in the icebox drain line to a T in the 1" sink drain. From there, I installed a bronze & stainless seacock, 1" teak backing block, and flush thru-hull. I treated the stock icebox lid with epoxy resin to stabilize its moisture content and discourage warping. I also added about 2" of blue foam insulation to the bottom of the lid.

I don't recommend check valves in drains, including bilge pump hoses. It's entirely too easy for them to become partially blocked -- neither fully open nor closed.

Routing icebox melt into the bilge is a really bad idea. It's not always going to be pure water. What are you going to do the day a container of milk leaks in there? All bilge pumps leave a certain amount of water they can't pick up. The flatter the bilge, the more water remains. And sailboat bilges don't get much flatter than a C-25. Also, the two low points are difficult to get a pump pickup into.

-- Leon S.

Edited by - on

sweetcraft
Admiral

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USA
816 Posts

Response Posted - 11/09/2007 : 01:29:28

I was really disappointed with the box for ice with no insulation. Insulated the box by using the 2 inch foil backed foam and caulked the edges for an installed in-place box. Pulled the counter top and drilled 1/4" holes from the top spaced about every four inches. Inserted the straw of the foam can and applied a small amount in each hole. Re installed the counter top and hinged the top. The drain evolved from every idea mentioned to the system now which uses a plastic storage box with a top. In the box is a bilge pump and float switch with a drain from the ice box and a line to the keel cable hose. The plastic box is setting on the hull next to the keel cable and is under the sink and next to the drawer cabinet. A fused lighted bilge pump switch is on the front of the cabinet of the sink. This has worked for us for 4 seasons with the sink having it's own through hull drain. Pictures later.

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Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 11/09/2007 : 06:58:58

Wow! That's determination! What you guys don't realize is that box was intended to be a bait well, fed by salt water that circulates with each tack.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 11/09/2007 07:02:40

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3476 Posts

Response Posted - 11/09/2007 : 08:43:13

Ice Box Answers

Thanks, that helped a lot. I ordered backflow checkvalves from a plastics company and they would not work. 2 of four I ordered did not seal properly and the advice on them being problematic is very helpful. Also I learned:

1. ballcocks work best
2. backing blocks on through hulls

Can anyone suggest a part for a through hull and ball cock combination?

regards.ray

Ray Swords

Edited by - on

sweetcraft
Admiral

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USA
816 Posts

Response Posted - 11/10/2007 : 00:07:39

Good one Dave. My family tried to tell me that too.

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redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3476 Posts

Response Posted - 11/12/2007 : 11:28:13

Cooler Drain not draining.

After considering all the options it looks like I will replace the back flow check valve that is on the cooler line with new line and a Whale flap type back flow check valve and connecting into the line that drains with the sink, as it was originally designed. It has a sill cock before the through hull.

I'd like to use a ball type back flow check valve, but I could not find one.

regards.ray

Ray Swords

Edited by - on

John Bixby
Navigator

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118 Posts

Response Posted - 11/15/2007 : 14:16:50

The only type of check that will work is a swing check, a spring loaded check will never open to dump the ice box. On my 77 the only
check is below the ice box to keep the sink water from going into the
ice box. I just close the seacock when I sail and dont worry about it draining until I anchor or dock. Also I insulated the "bait box"
with two layers of A/C foam board, sealed the corners with aluminum tape and then shot expanding foam in the voids. Works great.
If you haven't done it while your'e doing all this work and if you
are on the hard, change out the seacock and get rid of the OEM
one from Catalina.
john on Ms Achsa
77 SR/FK

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 11/15/2007 : 14:29:07

John, his seacocks are not like yours, Catalina upgraded their parts.

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John Bixby
Navigator

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118 Posts

Response Posted - 11/15/2007 : 14:32:44

Frank,
I changed my seacocks after reading the forum. Every one with an
older 25 like mine should. Best insurnace policy around.
john

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