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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 250 Specific Forum

C-250 vs. C-30?

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AADIVER
Admiral

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USA
966 Posts

Initially Posted - 11/20/2007 : 10:53:51

What, in your collective and valued opinion(s), is the essential performance difference between my 250 and a mid 1980's C-30, both with tiller helms?

Frank Farmer
Long Beach, CA
aa.diver@verizon.net
http://mysite.verizon.net/aa.diver

PRETTY PENNY
'01 C-250 WK, Hull #558

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 11/20/2007 : 11:31:44

In my case, on Lake Erie, the 5 ft increase in waterline and 5,000+ lb increase in displacement would make a huge difference in the stability (comfort) of the ride through the choppy waves. The waves may not get as big as ocean waves but, the interval is really short so there's a lot of vertical movement in the 250. Although, the NWS was reporting 16 footers off shore during a storm a couple of weeks ago. I wouldn't be out in that in an 200 foot ore boat.

All real sailboats have tillers

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 11/20/2007 : 11:50:16

A friend of mine has a C30, and a couple of months or so ago he took a newbie out and this newbie asked if he could "bury the rail" just like some of the other relatively smaller sailboats were doing, and he replied, "I am trying to bury the rail". This just illustrates the increased inherent stability of the C30 over smaller boats.

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 11/20/2007 : 12:26:05

My theory is that, among small to mid-sized cruisers, you double the "size" of a sailboat for each additional 20% of length. (Have you been on both a C-22 and C-25?) So the C-30 "feels" like it's twice as big as the C-250, both in interior space and in stability and comfort in a seaway. (I think it's at least double the displacement.) You'll feel secure in a C-30 in conditions you wouldn't think of taking a C-250 into, and "yee-haw" conditions in the C-250 will be "nice" conditions in the C-30.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 11/20/2007 12:32:39

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 11/20/2007 : 14:45:03

Frank, are you building the case for you or your wife?

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AADIVER
Admiral

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USA
966 Posts

Response Posted - 11/20/2007 : 15:03:49

Both ;-) So far, the collective numero uno opinion is substantially increased stability. How 'bout basic sail handling, i.e. reefing, soloing, sheet handling, etc.? Have to admit I've never sailed a 30, nor have I ever crewed on one. I shall, of course, do so before deciding to move up.

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John Russell
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3444 Posts

Response Posted - 11/20/2007 : 15:23:59

I have as much experience here as you do Frank. But, I think that if properly rigged with a solo reefing system and lines led aft, it would not be any more difficult than the 250. Blocks, winches, etc., will be bigger so the physical demands (heavier sails, etc.) will be compensated.

The new learning curve will be the use of an inboard motor vs. outboard.

I moved from a 17ft day sailer to the 250 and the thing that I noticed most was that things tend to happen slower. You have more time to think then act. I wonder if the same will hold true for the move from the 250 to the 30

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stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Response Posted - 11/20/2007 : 15:45:26

Friends of ours sailed their C30 from Vancouver Island to Alaska. I think this is the smallest boat in which I would attempt that kind of trip.

Most of the time he single-hands. I've watched him and it doesn't seem to be any different than single handing a 25 footer.

I have another friend with a Hunter 34. He says that he bought the largest boat he could, that he could single hand. I've sailed with him several times and he doesn't let me (or anyone else) touch a thing.
IMHO - if you feel confident single handing your boat, a 30 footer is the next natural progression.

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piseas
Former Treasurer

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USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 11/20/2007 : 16:48:12

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dlucier
 A friend of mine has a C30, and a couple of months or so ago he took a newbie out and this newbie asked if he could "bury the rail" just like some of the other relatively smaller sailboats were doing, and he replied, "I am trying to bury the rail". This just illustrates the increased inherent stability of the C30 over smaller boats.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
First let me say I feel totally safe in my 250. But I also love to "bury the rail" as you say. I would miss this if I had a 30'

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dave Bristle
 and "yee-haw" conditions in the C-250 will be "nice" conditions in the C-30.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Second, I would miss the "yee-haw". Sorry but a 30' is boring to me in these 2 respects. I can say that cuz I have sailed several times in 30's. I like to FEEL the ocean and what it has to offer. I don't feel that with a 30. I know what you are going to say next, so please don't!

Steve A

Edited by - piseas on 11/20/2007 16:58:30

crcalhoon
Captain

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USA
303 Posts

Response Posted - 11/20/2007 : 17:14:50

I sailed a Cape Dory 30 for a number of years. If anything, I find it a little easier to handle the larger boat. It doesn't bounce around so much, isn't so much affected by the wind while raising or lowering sails. I guess that is all a part of the stability function. Docking and undocking can be a little tricky, because we are accustomed to being able to reach out and push the boat around off a piling or pier and you can't do that with a bigger heavier boat or the laws of momentum and inertia and so on will break your arms and wrists and elbows and ankles and things.

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 11/20/2007 : 18:21:46

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by piseas Second, I would miss the "yee-haw". Sorry but a 30' is boring to me in these 2 respects. I can say that cuz I have sailed several times in 30's. I like to FEEL the ocean and what it has to offer. I don't feel that with a 30.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I felt that way going from 14 (Sunfish) to 17 (Daysailer) and then from 17 to 25. In part it depends on the water... An inland lake sailor will never get a thrill on a C-30, but it's entirely different when small-craft warnings are out on Buzzard's Bay, which can be some of the most uncomfortable sailing grounds anywhere. For the sheer pleasure of sailing, I like the Sunfish. For getting somewhere and being able to handle a few nasty surprises, I like the 30+ footer.

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piseas
Former Treasurer

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USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 11/20/2007 : 18:45:31

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by piseas
 [quote][i] I know what you are going to say next, so please don't!

Steve A

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Some people just dont listen, or maybe read! And some gotta have the last word.

Steve A

Edited by - piseas on 11/20/2007 18:46:56

AADIVER
Admiral

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USA
966 Posts

Response Posted - 11/20/2007 : 19:47:53

Steve, here's a last word: correctly rig your boom vang. Uncoil all that line, reverse the vang, remove the cam cleat, and lead the vang line through a mast base block and run it aft through the port clutch. Now it's totally adjustable from the cockpit.
But what do I know, I'm only 75 ;-)

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 11/20/2007 : 22:19:05

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by piseas
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by piseas
 [quote][i] I know what you are going to say next, so please don't<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Some people just dont listen, or maybe read! And some gotta have the last word.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Sorry--I didn't realize you were declaring the end of the discussion...

I'll try to help:

THE END

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 11/20/2007 22:20:32

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 11/21/2007 : 08:41:54

Thanks for that last comment Frank... I feel happy that I have another 16 years of sailing and then might even consider moving up

Paul

Edited by - on

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 11/21/2007 : 12:06:30

Frank,

What about the fact that with a C30 you will be able to go off on small 2-3 day cruises with the Admiral with standing headroom, real shower etc? A more comfortable (less sporty) ride is also a great Admiral selling point. you will also have more room moving about on deck to check rigging while you're on route.

Maybe you could look into the C32's?. If I were you I would consider a wheel steering model with autohelm and all lines going to the cockpit for both the C30 or C32. Electric winches could also be on your list.

I believe your next project should be to get a ride on a 30 and 32 and ask if possble that you handle the boat by yourself under the skippers supervision. A sail school should help you in these matters. The answer to your question on "should I move up?" will be clear by then. Doing this technical analysis with your forum friends is one thing, but experiencing a C30 or C32 will provide much more information as to the feel.

I abide with Paul's comment above and can say that it's very ecouraging to see that I too have many years of sailing ahead of me. Was talking to the Admiral about you this morning driving up to work.

Edited by - on

AADIVER
Admiral

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USA
966 Posts

Response Posted - 11/21/2007 : 12:55:07

"I believe your next project should be to get a ride on a 30..."

Agree absolutely! A 32 would be a consideration except for the cost. First things first: experience a mid '80's 30, THEN make a decision one way or 'tother. Thanks again, mates.

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Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 11/21/2007 : 13:12:20

I was in Long Beach for training 2 weeks ago, well in Irvine to be more exact. Next time I'm up there maybe I can hitch a ride on your C30? :-)

Edited by - Steve Blackburn on 11/21/2007 13:14:20

AADIVER
Admiral

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USA
966 Posts

Response Posted - 11/24/2007 : 23:22:12

Decision time: if and when I move up to a 30, she has to be an '86 with tiller helm in very good condition. Spread de woid.

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John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 11/25/2007 : 09:43:59

Frank, did I miss something? Why an '86?

I'm with you on the tiller, though. I've been having this "if I win the lottery" thought lately and it involves a 309 with A TILLER!

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GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4303 Posts

Response Posted - 11/25/2007 : 13:34:18

I was on my slip neighbors C30 the other night when a cold front rolled through. The wind literal went from dead calm to 25+ within one minute. We ate dinner onboard his boat and could barely feel the boat moving with the wind and waves in the slip. When it came time to go to sleep on my boat in the next slip I was immediately riding a cork in the ocean. My C25 rocked and rolled all night long!

Although I've only had my boat for 6 weeks I'm already starting to think of moving up to at least a C30 within a couple of years.

GaryB
C25 SR/WK #5862
Kemah,TX

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 11/25/2007 : 15:00:17

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by GaryB
 ...Although I've only had my boat for 6 weeks I'm already starting to think of moving up to at least a C30 within a couple of years.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Nothing wrong with that... Every boat has its advantages and disadvantages, and every sailor has his or her own criteria. Your experience supports my "20% Rule".

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