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Retrieving mainsail halyard at the top of the mast

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lwirth
1st Mate

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USA
35 Posts

Initially Posted - 12/04/2007 : 14:00:46

Has anyone been able to retrieve the mainsail halyard from the top of the mast without using a bosun's seat or taking down the mast? I have a 1985 TR that is now on the hard but needs a solution by this spring. Thanks, Larry

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John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 12/04/2007 : 14:08:48

I assume the boat is on the hard. Take down the mast. It will give you an opportunity to inspect the sheaves, lights, etc.

I read somewhere about a trick with PVC pipe and some kind of wire hook fashioned at the end. Not sure if I read that here or on another forum.

The hard is mighty hard to fall on so, I wouldn't recommend a bosun's chair while the boat is out of the water.

Edited by - John Russell on 12/04/2007 14:09:22

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 12/04/2007 : 14:58:09

drop the mast

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 12/04/2007 : 15:04:24

I would definitely try using the pvc pipe/hook trick before I'd drop the mast. Soooo much easier.

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 12/04/2007 : 15:15:39

Presumably there's a shackle at the top, on the aft side of the mast. Try tying a line, not too light and about the length of the mast, to the tail of the jib halyard, and then insert a bent piece of wire through the jib halyard, or wrap it tightly around the halyard, above the knot. The wire should form a small, slightly downward hook. Pull the forward end of the jib halyard to hoist the wire and the additional line until the hook is by the wayward shackle. Twist (the reason for a relatively heavy line) and maneuver the line until the hook is through the shackle or even the eye-splice above it, and then carefully pull them both back down.

Sounds simple, huh?

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 12/04/2007 15:21:54

Renzo
Admiral

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USA
621 Posts

Response Posted - 12/04/2007 : 18:25:46

Combine Don and Dave's ideas and you will have more control as try to hook the shackel. I haven't done it myself but I watched a guy in my marina do it and it worked laike a charm

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bbriner
Captain

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349 Posts

Response Posted - 12/04/2007 : 21:27:21

My halyard wasn't ALL the way at the masthead ... it was about 3/4 of the way. I took a telescoping boat hook and some broken extendable handles and extended them all (I had 3) and duct-taped them together with massive amounts of tape, with a hanger at the end. It took more time to put all this togehter than to hook the shackle - event hough it was blowing in the breeze.

If you can though just drop the mast. It's not hard and it's a good oppty to inspect things and fix things that need fixing. Warning: all projects take at least 3x longer than you think (it's true - it's a law of physics I think)!! Make sure you don't have any promised outings coming up because you will probably miss them. :)

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britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 12/05/2007 : 06:48:29

We did exactly as dave suggested in the keys the other week. It took us about 20 attempts to get the wire hook to capture the line (it was our jib furler halyard that was at the wrong end!) Just make sure the lower end of the halyard is looooooose, it's a bummer when you snag it with the wire, pull on it and then it disconnects due to tension on the errant halyard!

Paul

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tinob
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1883 Posts

Response Posted - 12/05/2007 : 09:54:02

I carry a large treble hook aboard, use it to snag bunkers for bait and on one occasion I used it to retrieve an errant main halyard. Worked easier than a piece of hanger wire because of the three hooks. All in all it was about as easy as snagging bunker, which isn't that easy usually. Best bet is to drop the mast, but some look to get a break doing the easy job first.

Val on the hard, DAGNABIT, #3936, Patchogue, N.Y.

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 12/05/2007 : 11:04:27

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by bbriner
 Warning: all projects take at least 3x longer than you think (it's true - it's a law of physics I think)!!<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">When combining everyone's time estimates in the software development business, I always added 50% to cover interruptions, and then doubled that to account for eveyone's tendancy to underestimate the complexity of the project. So, 1.5 * 2 = 3. Bristle's Constant. (God, why did I go there--I'm retired!)

BTW, Val's big treble hook is a good upgrade to my suggestion.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 12/05/2007 11:07:03

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 12/05/2007 : 11:47:41

Gotta agree with you there Dave. Software development always takes 3x as long as you think. You have to get through the three iterations:
<ul>
<li>1. Brute force approach (also known as proof of concept). This doesn't take long because you don't care because you know you're going to..</li> <li>2. Clean it up & reduce the brute force to more elegant code because you've seen how it needs to work now. And you know where it needs tweaking to work faster/better/whatever's your driving force. This takes longer than you think because you can always "make it better", but then you have to...</li>
<li>3. Make it user friendly. This takes forever because (a) you know too much about your own code, so (b) all users who can't figure it out are idiots, so (c) you have to constantly add error traps for stuff you can't believe your testers found, etc... (this was my favorite part as a tester at MSFT, punching holes in developer logic was a blast, I miss doing it)</li>
<li>4. Documentation (I know, I know, I just put this in here as a little developer humor, nothing ever gets documented properly, so this step doesn't really count). </li>
</ul>

BTW, what are bunkers, and what do you use them for bait for?

Edited by - delliottg on 12/05/2007 12:16:21

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 12/05/2007 : 12:12:05

When I was a Product Manager I had to deal with idealistic engineers ("with enough flashable ROMS IT will live forever!")and diva programmers ("I work when and where I want and there is nothing you can do about it!") this ended up in my attitude of "be happy... ship crappy". Guy Kawasaki taught me that.

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delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 12/05/2007 : 12:22:26

Well, between being a PM & tester, for me there's no choice, I hated being a PM, and loved being a tester.

I always equated PM's as cat herders. You have no power to cause anyone to do what you want/need done, you can only try to convince them. Developers were definitely the divas, they write what they want when they want, and who cares what the spec (that I spent maybe months writing) said? We're going to do it my way. Testers were the realists who no one wanted to hear from. What? It makes your hard drive explode? Let's just make them make sturdier cases, that'll fix it, and then it's their problem when the shrapnel hits.

Oh, and my favorite: software managers: "we won't ship till it's ready, or until some idealistic date based on someone who doesn't understand software approaches and then we have to change our ship criteria so whatever we've got, no matter how crappy can make "the bar" so we can ship it with a straight face (and all fingers & toes crossed). I called this the Animal Farm approach. We write crappy code for as long as we can, until someone changes the rules (otherwise known as "the bar") up on the barn to fit the crappy code, then we ship it. I do not miss working with that particular group at MSFT.

My two all time favorite things to hear out of a developer's pie hole:
"It works on my machine"
"It's not supposed to do that"

Edited by - delliottg on 12/05/2007 12:28:55

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 12/05/2007 : 16:32:58

"Documenting a software product is like changing a tire on a moving truck." - somebody at Lotus Development

"If you wait till the developers say it's ready, you'll never release a product." - any number of my bosses, and eventually me

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John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 12/05/2007 : 17:35:36

methinks we have a hijack, aarrgh!

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 12/05/2007 : 21:02:45

We solved his problem, and it's cold and windy here...

Edited by - on

bbriner
Captain

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349 Posts

Response Posted - 12/07/2007 : 09:07:46

Maybe we should have another forum for product managers (current and ex) and/or software development? Seems like there's a lot of experience here! (one of the interesting things about working for an internet software company is that we don't 'ship' software anymore, which of course just makes it easier to put sw that isn't quite ready into production - it's called iteration;)). In fact we're getting ready to just that - today.

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delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 12/07/2007 : 10:03:02

Continuing the hijack...
At MSFT, it's not called iteration, it's called either a QFE (Quick Fix Engineering), or a Service Pack. Having worked on both for pretty much all flavors of Windows (from Windows 98, NT, XP, Server 2003, Vista & a couple of different embedded versions) I'd much rather work on a QFE any day than a service pack. QFEs are just what they sound like, a quick fix for a small problem, SP's are a whole bunch of QFE's wrapped up into a larger package that requires tons of testing, plus the inevitable feature creep that they always want to put into them. Service packs are a slog, QFE's are quick & dirty and much more fun to test.

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 12/07/2007 : 10:54:50

OK, you're giving me a headache... I'm starting to remember the sound of the alarm clock... visions of going to work in the dark... meetings....... meetings...... teleconferences with Japan and Thailand at 10pm....... schedules.... status reports.... budgets..... STOP!!!!

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 12/07/2007 10:56:50

tinob
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1883 Posts

Response Posted - 12/07/2007 : 10:57:37

Moss Bunker, aka, bunker, peanut bunker, and menhaden is arguably the best bait fish for early summer bay to ocean fishing. Striped bass, blue fish, weakfish, favor bunker over other bait fish. Fish the bunker live when small in size and in chunks when larger.

Google Mossbunker/Menhaden.

Val on the hard DAGNABIT, # 3936, Patchogue, N.Y.

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 12/07/2007 : 11:01:48

Thank you, Val!

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