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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 250 Specific Forum

10% Ethanol

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bear
Admiral

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USA
909 Posts

Initially Posted - 12/28/2007 : 13:06:56

Here in upstate New York ethanol is making it's appearance, 10% I guess by volume. Any thoughts or experience using this mix with a Honda 8 classic.

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At Ease
Admiral

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672 Posts

Response Posted - 12/28/2007 : 17:39:35

I would go strickly by the owner's manual. I have a diesel pick up, and guys are always wanting to put something in the fuel for more power, more economy, etc...many have messed up perfectly good engines by not following the guidelines as directed by the manufacturer.

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delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 12/28/2007 : 18:02:58

When I bought my F-250 it only got 11-12 MPG, I spent a fair amount of money modifying the engine, intake & exhaust for which I now get around 17 MPG. Had I followed the manufacturer's recommendations, I'd be getting roughly 50% less mileage.

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GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4303 Posts

Response Posted - 12/28/2007 : 19:41:55

You don't really have the option of using the ethanol in your fuel. If the state adopts it your stuck with it. We've had 10% ethanol in the Houston area for about a year. I've heard that you may have to get a new fuel line and bulb made for use with ethanol. If your fuel line is old it will eventually begin to disintegrate from the ethanol. I believe I've read that some plastic and most fiberglass fuel tanks also have problems with the ethanol over time.

I haven't had any problems to date.

Gary Booker
'89 SR/WK #5862
Kemah,TX

Edited by - GaryB on 12/28/2007 19:42:40

Al
Captain

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USA
269 Posts

Response Posted - 12/28/2007 : 19:49:40

From the Honda-Marine website FAQs:

"Honda engines are designed and certified to run on regular unleaded gasoline.

Gasoline is allowed, by regulation, to contain a variety of additives. The same regulation limits how much of some additives, such as alcohol, can be included in the fuel and still allow it to be sold as gasoline. If you look in a Honda product owner’s manual, you will see that a maximum of 10% ethanol is allowed in gasoline (other oxygenates are also listed). Honda engines are designed for good performance and efficient operation using gasoline containing from 0 to 10% ethanol.

E85, a mixture of 85% ethanol and 15% gasoline, has been in the news recently. E85 is an alternative fuel; it is not gasoline. Honda engines are not designed or certified to run on E85 or any other alternative fuel.

Always refer to the owner’s manual for your Honda to get a list of recommended fuel and the current approved additives."

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 12/29/2007 : 11:43:51

The Honda 8 Classic predates E-10, so its owner's manual may not be current on the issue. Tech bulletins from Honda also show changes in opinions as they gain more experience with this fuel. See the current thread in the General Forum on fuel filters--I posted some recommendations given to me by a knowledgeable Honda outboard mechanic.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 12/29/2007 11:49:10

bear
Admiral

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USA
909 Posts

Response Posted - 12/29/2007 : 11:57:05

Thanks Dave, I knew my 95' Honda owners mail doesn't address this concern

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dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 12/31/2007 : 16:11:35

The new Nissan engines can take up to 10% ethanol also, but not more than 10%.

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 12/31/2007 : 17:28:36

Just be glad you don't have a fiberglass tank molded into your hull... The folks who do are facing some major problems as E-10 dissolves the resins and then fills their injectors with gunk.

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soulfinger
1st Mate

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USA
29 Posts

Response Posted - 12/31/2007 : 20:43:40

There are a lot of little "details" about ethanol that the ethanol industry doesn't want you to know about. Even though engines are "rated" for 10% ethanol, that just means they'll still run. It doesn't really say it won't slowly degrade your engine. I recently had to get the carb rebuilt on my Mercury 9.9. Repair guy said it was classic "ethanol poisoning", and that a large part of their business was ethanol damage related.

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 01/05/2008 : 14:38:21

I inquired about a new product from Stabil--it's sort of green instead of their standard red... Here's the answer I got from them--add salt to taste...
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Marine STA-BIL is much more concentrated formula and provides double the corrosion inhibitors and over 4x's the fuel system cleaner per gallon of gas than regular STA-BIL. This is important in every day use of E10 (10% ethanol) in vented marine outboard tanks/engines.

The price is slightly higher (not double) but it treats more per ounce, up to 10 gallons per ounce so while the per/ounce cost is higher, the per/gallon treatment is significantly less.

Regular STA-BIL will still be able to keep fuel stabilized over the winter just fine, Marine STA-BIL is intended mostly for everyday use @ 1oz. per 10 gallons of E10 fuel.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Given the potential repair expenses for my big EFI Honda V6, I'll be using it next season. It could be I'm a sucker, but......

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 01/05/2008 14:41:57

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 01/05/2008 : 19:20:20

After having on and off outboard problems, a fellow sailor on my dock started using Sta-Bil in every tank and since that time, his Honda outboard has not had any problems. I started using Sta-Bil myself...Can't hurt so why not.

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OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3460 Posts

Response Posted - 01/06/2008 : 07:49:27

I have used sta-bil in the past. Lately, I have been using Startron which West Marine sells. I use it everytime I fill up my 3 gallon fuel tank.

Both these products accomplish similar things but perhaps differently. Have not really looked into it that much. As I recall from the Startron marketing, it is an enzyme that reduces water formulation and has etc other benefits. Sta-bil also has a number of similar benefits. In my riding mower at home, I have used the regular Sta-bil. I probably have both of these products on the shelf in the garage. Since I wind up buying these products infrequently (they last a long time using about an ounce at a time), I have not really done any cost comparison or a real comparison of the benefits and if one is truly a superior product than the other for say marine use.

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