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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Rudder Reinforcement?

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Jefffriday
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USA
198 Posts

Initially Posted - 01/06/2008 : 15:07:16

I, unfortunately am going to have to repair an area of delamination near the bottom of my rudder (hey, the sun was not shining on the garage door when I laid the rudder down there in the evening, of course by noon the next day the sun had done its damage)In searching all the past posts, I came across several broken rudder tales. The appear to have failed at the waterline. I could not determine if they were all the older style wood core, or the newer foam core. I have a foam core balanced version. I also came across a post where someone reinforced his with stainless threaded rod. As the conditions on our lake change incredibly quickly, and get downright extreme (like 40-60kts gusts have been measured to 90) in very short order I am considering doing something to make mine more robust. Does anyonyone know of a foam core rudder failing? I have already replaced the gudgeon's, pintle's, and tiller (and lots and lots of other stuff)

infinity
89 wk/sr #5860
Basalt CO.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 01/06/2008 : 15:37:59

Hi Jeff... From what I've seen here and elsewhere, the most common point of catastrophic failure is right at the lower pintle, generally caused by heavy pitching in big waves, causing the rudder to be thrust into the water at an angle that puts a huge strain at that point. I doubt that it happens from steering forces alone.

There have been several stories about that with the original, unbalanced, wood-cored rudder. Some of this is probably due to deterioration of the wood, which is only in the rudder head. Moisture gets to it via cracks in the seam between the halves, and possibly through the holes for the pintle and tiller bolts. The foam-cored rudders seem to be holding up, although somebody here will probably dispute that with a tale of woe... If you aren't in chop that makes your boat pitch rather violently, I don't think you're likely to have a problem.

Your story is a good reminder to keep the rudder out of the sun when storing (especially with dark bottom paint) and also keep it from freezing (whether foam or wood).

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 01/06/2008 15:41:13

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3462 Posts

Response Posted - 01/06/2008 : 15:47:50

Here is a link to a past discussion. The failure of a foam/polymer core is discussed toward the end of the posting thread (last 5 or so postings).
http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=15002&SearchTerms=rudder,failure

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Jefffriday
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USA
198 Posts

Response Posted - 01/06/2008 : 17:16:05

Thanks I did read that post earlier, They discuss an IDA (plastic rudder) failing. I've got the time, the inclination, and am willing to try for the the "know how" part. I will post some pic's after I am done. I am planning on getting her to the Sea of Cortez in the next couple of years, so, what the heck, at least I won't worry about the rudder failing.

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Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 01/06/2008 : 22:57:49

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by OLarryR
 ...The failure of a foam/polymer core is discussed toward the end...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">The foam core and the polymer rudder are two entirely different things. The IDA polymer blade is solid plastic--no core, and apparently a bit vulnerable to breaking, as I would expect from working with it and from information on the Sarboard (marine) site and Trex (household) site. Cored fiberglass appears to be capable of withstanding more of the forces that a rudder is subjected to, although that is just my observation. I did replace the original unbalanced rudder with the foam-cored balanced model from Catalina Direct. It handled some very rough conditions on Long Island Sound (pitching and rolling) with no incident, but perhaps I was lucky.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 01/06/2008 23:02:21

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3462 Posts

Response Posted - 01/07/2008 : 05:25:42

I am not all knowledgeable on the different type of rudders out there in the market place. Agree that the link I provided had info regarding a polymer rudder that had failed. I guess when then talking about a foam core rudder, it implies that the rudder has an exterior surrounding the core but I guess I was not positive if that means in all cases that the exterior is fiberglas mat. It would seem to me that the favored rudders are the fiberglassed rudders which probably do have a foam core. However, if there are other types of rudders out there that perhaps are bonded with something else (ie Polymer) and not even sure if there are any or if it is even possible to make it that way considering the bonding of the surfaces, then would think that any solid exterior matl, one would have to look into it's properties/past experience.

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Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 01/07/2008 : 14:47:09

The rudder on our 1986 C22 snapped in half at the waterline. It was the wood cored version and the core was rotted due to some cracking that let water in. Naturally, it broke during a heavy wind and waves day. I would think the foam core would be less susceptable to that.

What is this with rudders delaminating in the sun? Is this a general rudder problem or specific ones? People in our club leave their boats and rudders out year round. Is it just an issue with rudders that are painted?

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jerlim
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1484 Posts

Response Posted - 01/10/2008 : 12:44:59

In the interest of having a plan 'B', I'm kinda thinking that the O/B will be able to get you back in should the rudder fail, of course weather/surface/tide conditions will have their influence...

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delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 01/10/2008 : 13:02:05

Randy,
I think the rudders delaminating when out & painted is from heat expansion. The dark paint absorbs more heat energy from the sun, which expands everything inside & breaks the fiberglass. I keep mine shaded beneath my boat, not that there's much heat energy here during our cloudy winter. If we had lots of bright sun, I'd be more worried.

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 01/10/2008 : 19:38:43

David is right--particularly pertaining to foam-cored rudders. For either wood or foam, in freezing climates, it's a good idea to store the rudder indoors (where it's not freezing). Moisture can do it to either type.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 01/10/2008 19:40:47

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 01/11/2008 : 07:57:51

A friend of mine with a Hunter 28, paints his rudder with a white antifouling paint which he says is recommended by the manufacturer.

Although I remove my rudder over the winter, in my boatyard pretty much everyone else leaves their's attached to the boat. Some cover them with a white plastic while most do nothing.

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