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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

spreader issue

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2far2drive
1st Mate

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USA
74 Posts

Initially Posted - 01/04/2008 : 11:29:18

I was on the boat last weekend and I was inspecting some of the rigging as my outboard should be done this weekend and i cant wait to get her out in the water. As I was checking out the standing rigging, I noticed the starboard spreader is angled up higher than the port. Is this an issue and how can I correct this? The angle isnt too much higher but a little noticable. I was recently up the mast installing a topping lift and the spreaders both seemed very solid, in fact I was standing "very lightly" on the insides next to the mast when checking something on the mast. Any ideas?? Sorry, I did some basic searching on the forum but Im at work most of the day and I dont have a lot of time to dig around today and Im hoping to go sailing tomarrow.

David
83 SR/FK #3341
Kemah Texas

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 01/04/2008 : 11:55:55

I don't think its really an issue. The spreaders are loose. They are lightly held onto the wire shrouds, next time you go up slide the port end down a little.

If you were prepping for Cape Horn I might have a different answer.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 01/04/2008 : 12:18:13

A boat hook might do the trick. (Did the '83 get the stainless sockets?)

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 01/04/2008 : 12:19:31

Check the spreader near its base to be sure it isn't bent or creased - both of them. And compare the bases for symmetry. Its probably not a big deal, but the spreaders are loaded in compression and you don't want a collapse. I bent one putting the mast up last year and the replacement from CD was pretty cheap.

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 01/04/2008 : 12:35:16

I've heard a lot about bent turnbuckles - could he being having problems based on one of those? (Usually bent whilst raising the mast)

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2far2drive
1st Mate

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USA
74 Posts

Response Posted - 01/04/2008 : 13:50:31

As far as I know, the turn buckles are not bent. what will they look like if they are bent? Sailing is a no go with bent turnbuckles right?

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 01/04/2008 : 16:41:49

David... The bends generally occur in the toggle/screw going into the body of the turnbuckle. The biggest problem that causes is an inability to tighten the turnbuckle. The bend is most often the result of the turnbuckle not aligning properly as the mast is raised. I'm not sure how that would cause a spreader to be out of alignment...

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GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4304 Posts

Response Posted - 01/04/2008 : 19:26:23

David,

I'll probably be going out at least one day this weekend. Hit me on Channel 16 "LaFawnduh". Maybe I can meet up with you and take a look at your rigging.

What marina are you in?

GaryB
'89 SR/WK #5862
Kemah,TX

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Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 01/04/2008 : 23:06:09

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Sailing is a no go with bent turnbuckles right?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Right. A bent turnbuckle bolt is a weak bolt. Replace ASAP.

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2far2drive
1st Mate

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USA
74 Posts

Response Posted - 01/05/2008 : 09:58:03

Im going to check everything in a couple of hours but if all goes well, Im going sailing today! I just got the outboard back after the $500 bill and Im taking her out. GaryB, Ill be out there from around 12-5pm. Tomarrow I might try and make it down again, call me and maybe we can meet up.

281 961 4022
David

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Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 01/05/2008 : 11:51:55

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dave Bristle
 David... The bends generally occur in the toggle/screw going into the body of the turnbuckle. The biggest problem that causes is an inability to tighten the turnbuckle. The bend is most often the result of the turnbuckle not aligning properly as the mast is raised. I'm not sure how that would cause a spreader to be out of alignment...
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I thought that the bent turnbuckles made it so that the shrouds wouldn't sit properly. ie. would be out of alignment with the opposite side, and difficult to tighten. Thats why I posted as a question and not a solution.

Seems to me the force exerted on the spreaders by the shrouds would contribute to pull them up/down somewhat. Wouldn't the spreader with the looser shroud tend to be aligned differently than the opposite one? Again I post as a question since the fitment to the mast and internal strength of the spreaders would affect their deflection in response to the tension on the shrouds. Catalina may have engineered the boats to overcome the effect of differently tensioned shrouds. I don't know.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 01/05/2008 : 12:22:24

The outboard end of the spreader slides up and down on the shroud, so its angle is pretty much independent of tension, although it can affect the tension. (Does that make sense?) I believe the angle should be very slightly upward (toward the tip) so that it is parallel to the force being imparted to the mast by the shroud tension. I also recall (vaguely) that the spreader sockets are shaped accordingly.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 01/05/2008 13:01:24

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 01/05/2008 : 13:09:03

the shroud should make an equal angle with the spreader both above and below, that results in a slight upward tilt of the spreader.

Go sailing, fit it later.

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 01/07/2008 : 09:03:42

Thanks for the clarification guys!

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Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 01/07/2008 : 09:22:40

You will have some wobble in the spreaders, however once the shrouds are on there should be zero wobble while at the dock. The shrouds should take that angle out.

Under load on a particular tack you might see the leeward spreader move slightly but only because of the load of the wind on the sails and rigging.

Is your rig tensioned equally?

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 01/07/2008 : 09:54:06

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by JimB517
 the shroud should make an equal angle with the spreader both above and below, that results in a slight upward tilt of the spreader.

Go sailing, fit it later.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Never heard that before.

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delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 01/07/2008 : 10:33:00

Jim's correct, the spreader tips should [url="http://www.answers.com/topic/spreaders"]bisect the angle[/url] the shrouds make with them. That will make the spreaders point slightly up. If the angles aren't the same, the loads on the shroud are significantly different from top to bottom and you will be stressing your rig unnecessarily. Enough movement in either direction can cause your rig to fail. You want to make sure the spreaders are always in compression (90° to the load), if not, you get a bending force which wants to put a kink in your mast.

Our port shroud decided to go walkabout on us last year, which was noticed by a friend as he walked past the marina. I was able to snag the spreader with a long boathook the marina has and pull it back down while my friend watched from a distance.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 01/07/2008 : 11:14:00

My spreaders follow the angle of the spreader base which must provide the correct intersection with the shroud. I use spreader boots held in place with self amalgamating rigging tape which keeps the spreaders located on the shroud. While on this subject we might as well bring up swagging the shrouds to the spreader caps. I had to drill holes in the end of my spreaders so Catalina must not have thought swagging is needed but I do it anyway.

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 01/07/2008 : 14:57:18

I agree the shrouds should be "swagged" (or seized?)--I used stainless seizing wire going through a hole in the spreader and wrapped a few times around the shroud above and below. The issue is that if a leeward shroud gets slack enough to fall out of the slot in the spreader, when you tack, down comes the mast.

I also agree with Jim's angle description. To me, that means the compression force on the spreader will be in line with the spreader--other angles could cause that force to buckle the spreader.

Edited by - on

2far2drive
1st Mate

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USA
74 Posts

Response Posted - 01/07/2008 : 23:33:52

Well, as I have basically NO idea what anyone is referring to here and there seems to be some disagreement as to angled up or level, Ill just leave them alone.

But, Im very happy to report 2 great back to back days of sailing. Saturday I stuck to the lake to learn my boat and how she handles and plus I had my step dad with me who doesnt know anything about sailing. Im not saying I do either, but I have been out a few times and read a few books so I knew a little more than him haha. I practiced tacking all over the place and made about 8 or 9 passes through the lake before we motored back in and called it for the day.

The next day I had a friend with a morgan25 come over and we headed out with another friend of mine to the bay. We motored all the way and once out in the bay we started off under a reefed main for a bit. We made it out around 10 miles or so and the wind was starting to die down so we unreefed the main and raised the genoa and mae our tack to come on back. After about 30 minutes of barely over 1knot the wind started picking back up considerably and we just started flying on a beam reach. We kept her flying, healing somewhere between 25-35 and just having a blast. We made quick time back to the Kemah channel and motorsailed our way back across the lake into my slip. Im HOOOOOKED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Now, time to learn all this stuff you guys are talking about because this topic has gotten me pretty lost. Im trying... im trying

Edited by - on

glivs
Admiral

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USA
836 Posts

Response Posted - 01/08/2008 : 07:06:56

David,
Sounds like a great day sailing!
FWIW... the spreaders should be perpendicular to the shrouds. Because the shrouds are angled from the deck to the top of the mast, however, this will result in the spreaders angling slightly upward from horizontal. Hope that clarifies things a bit.
g
--

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GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4304 Posts

Response Posted - 01/08/2008 : 20:32:04

Hey David,

Did you have any problems hitting bottom in the lake? I assume you did not stay in the channels? I didn't realize the lake was deep enough to navigate with a sailboat. If you can sail it with your fin keel I should have no problems with my wing keel.

GaryB
'89 SR/WK #5862
Kemah,TX

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2far2drive
1st Mate

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USA
74 Posts

Response Posted - 01/08/2008 : 20:51:23

Yea, maybe I should pay more attention to people when they tell my the lake is that shallow! I never hit a thing and no, I didnt stay in the channels

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tinob
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1883 Posts

Response Posted - 01/09/2008 : 12:35:31

Dave,

My '83 has stainless steel spreaders and sockets. I don't think they were retrofitted.

I'm interested in the Skedaddle but I'm thinking about the difficulties I'd have getting in and out of the thing, especially in deep water. Hope to hear from you when you try it. The local WM had a two seat er as well.

Val on the hard DAGNABIT, # 3936, Patchogue, N.Y.

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 01/09/2008 : 13:28:41

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by tinob
 ...I'm interested in the Skedaddle...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Forgetting which thread you're in again, Val?

I'll report back (over there).

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gbeardjr
Navigator

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USA
101 Posts

Response Posted - 01/13/2008 : 00:08:56

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by 2far2drive
 Yea, maybe I should pay more attention to people when they tell my the lake is that shallow! I never hit a thing and no, I didnt stay in the channels

Yea, Im feeling very lucky right about now I guess. Who knows. I dont even have a depth sounder.... am I just being ignorant?

Im already tracking the weather for next weekend. Jeeze, I can hardly focus at work, I just want to get out there again!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Yes the lake is shallow I sail out of the channel some in my SK when the tide is medium to high. From the Turtle Club to about the Beach club the water there is usually 6 feet or deeper. I bump sometimes when the tide is not real hide. If I do get stuck I just crank up the keel until I am free then lower it back. There is a layer of mud 2 foot deep before you hit the hard stuff so its a slow slow stop. On the days when a north wind is blowing I can't even get out of watergate with out cranking up the keel. Gary your wing should be fine in all but the extreme low tides like when we have when the 25-30 mph north winds come through all the way down to the Hilton.

Garnett

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