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Repairing/replacing the anchor light

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JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

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1520 Posts

Initially Posted - 01/18/2008 : 14:24:47

The Gypsy has been great fun on the Magothy River and the Chesapeake Bay over the last 2 1/2 years, but I have had to rig an anchor light each time when anchoring out. The switch may have been relabeled by a PO for the autopilot that has since been partly removed by a subsequent PO. I am planning to drop the mast in the next few weeks to check out the anchor light circuit and bulb. Since the steaming light bulb has just failed in early December, I would like to install a new bulb there, too.

Has anyone heard of a C25 without an anchor light?

I have read about the benefits of an A-frame, and that's what I would like to use to drop the mast. I have 2 twelve foot 2x4's for an A-frame.

The boat is on the hard. If the weather is clear and warm enough to sit in the marina doing wiring, this could get done soon. Since the boat is 30 years old this year, I suppose the old harness might need replacing. I've seen those posts, too.

I would prefer to just change 2 bulbs, reconnect the anchor light circuit at the switch panel, and find eveything works up the mast. How likely is that?

JohnP
1978 C25 SR/FK "Gypsy"
Mill Creek off the Magothy River, Chesapeake Bay
Port Captain, northern Chesapeake Bay

Edited by - on

stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Response Posted - 01/18/2008 : 19:15:44

My '81 came with a burned out anchor light (mast light)
I've replaced the bulb (#93 automotive bulb)several times and don't trust that cheapo fixture.
So, I use an LED lantern that uses rechargeable AA batteries. It's brighter and lasts 80 hours on a charge. This lantern's unintended benefit is that it also acts as a deck lite.

This lantern is made by Brunton, its waterproof and rugged and costs about $30.

If I were determined to use the anchor/mast light on my boat, I would replace it with an new LED fixture. IMHO, the fixture is the problem on our boats - not the wiring or anything else.

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stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 01/18/2008 : 19:27:07

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">How likely is that?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Likely.

Should be a fairly easy job with the mast down. If the continuity in your wiring is good, and your fixture is okay, you can expect good results.

Essential tools for a boat are a voltage meter and a continuity checker. These tools will tell you whether or not you are going to be successful with your existing setup.

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 01/18/2008 : 21:52:15

And if you do find that your circuit is good, but the fixture is bad, a new Aqua Signal all around fixture is less than $20, and an LED light from Dr. LED is about $30 if you don't want to use the stock 10w incandescent. I've just done this exact project last weekend, and it doesn't take too long to do.

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ClamBeach
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Response Posted - 01/19/2008 : 09:45:18

"Has anyone heard of a C25 without an anchor light? "
Mine didn't have one.

There are a couple schools of thought on where to put an anchor light on smaller boats.

The typical spot for a C25 anchor light is at the masthead. Up 35' in the air it is easy to see from far off, or perhaps by big ships, but may escape the notice of smaller craft (read powerboats). Since powerboats rather than big ships are the biggest threat to most of us, some owners have opted to rig their anchor lights down lower to the water. YMMV

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Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 01/19/2008 : 20:59:31

Great timing! I lost my anchor light assembly trailering this week.

Edited by - on

cat1951
Admiral

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USA
636 Posts

Response Posted - 01/21/2008 : 10:02:45

I bought this from Catalina Direct last year. The price was right and it fit the bracket already installed. Unfortunately we didn't know there was a problem until we lowered the mast to install a furler. There was a small hole in the top which let water in when raining. It took only minutes to fix.

http://www.catalinadirect.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=286

Edited by - on

farrison
Navigator

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USA
166 Posts

Response Posted - 01/21/2008 : 11:25:20

John;

My 82 had a non-functioning anchor and steaming light ( on top of the mast and half way up) when we got her. I cleaned up both of the original sockets, replaced the lenses and put a battery on both and they both worked. I redid the boat wiring, that included the switch panel and I got power to the deck fitting just fine. But when I plugged in the mast to the deck fitting, neither worked. The deck fitting was so old and loose that the pins of the plug didn't touch the socket sleaves. I replaced both male and female deck fittings, and both lights work fine now. At some point I wouldn't mind replacing the anchor light with a LED version, but that's done the road a bit now that both are working.

Paul

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OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3467 Posts

Response Posted - 01/21/2008 : 20:14:22

I replaced my non-working anchor light with a CG Approved LED made by OGM.
https://secure.orcagreen.com/xcart/product.php?productid=16142&cat=0&bestseller

I had the mast rewired, replaced the anchor light, windex and steaming/deck light housing. I then rewired the cabin to the mast about 6 months later which included installation of a new 8 circuit-breaker switch panel made by BEP.

http://www.bep.co.nz/8-Way-Circuit-Breaker-Panel-186-1415.html

Edited by - on

glivs
Admiral

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USA
836 Posts

Response Posted - 01/23/2008 : 06:25:27

Larry,
I'm looking at p.23 in the owner's manual(1988+). How did you attach the OGM anchor light? Did you fabricate a custom mounting bracket or were you able to use/modify the original? Thanks.

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OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3467 Posts

Response Posted - 01/23/2008 : 06:31:09

The story with the attaching it is that I also purchased one of their mounts 9from OGM) but I can't remeber which of the two mounts I purchased and it wound up being the wrong one. The windup on this is that I had a marine guy working the installation and he went to a local fabricator, drew him a picture of what he wanted and then had a mount fabricated. 9i cannot remember if it was out of SS or Aluminum but he mounted the anchor light to it and also the antenna and the Windex. It was basically a metal plate with a 90 degree angle to it. The OGM anchor light believe has 2 or 3 screw holes in it's bottom housing. You screw thru the underside of the plate and into the anchor light base that is mounted on top of the plate.

Edited by - on

JohnP
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1520 Posts

Response Posted - 02/04/2008 : 14:37:07

Super Bowl Sunday was warm and sunny around here so I decided to drop the mast. Just to ease my mind about this project I made some schematics showing the leverage that a 12’ A-frame would provide:

That convinced me, so I went ahead and made an A-frame and a crutch. Here is the crutch with mock pintles modeled after the rudder's pintles:

A simple A-frame was made from two 12' 2x4's with a 6" carriage bolt and nut at the top:

Carabiners, jib halyard, and boom vang were rigged:

The boom vang was tied to the mainsheet which was run through a turning block that was wired securely at the stem, and the mainsheet was led aft to the halyard clutch:

The halyard clutch and 3 wraps counterclockwise around the winch on cabintop allowed controlled release of the line and stopping at any time:

The forward lower shrouds were loosened 6 turns, released, and taped to the mast. The upper shrouds were loosened 6 turns as well and left attached. Aft lower shrouds were left tight. The bolt at the mast step was loosened, and the forestay was released and taped to the mast with the other shrouds:

The mast came down slowly and under control. Pfew!!! Here it is resting on the pulpit and a low support at the stern rail:

I have finally learned that my C25 has no anchor light fixture. The bulb in the steaming light seems to have burned out.

So I can either replace the steaming light or replace the fixture with a steaming light/ deck light combo. I haven't needed a deck light so far, but it seems like a good time to think about adding it. I have a "200 watt" white gas Coleman lantern for overnight stays.

I am looking for an LED anchor light fixture, and I also like the idea of a windex light, pointing up not outward, maybe with a red LED or a red lens. I will look at the OGM light Larry mentioned.

I've seen some regular steaming/deck lights in West Marine, but the ones I saw are not LED's.

I guess I might make an anchor/windex LED fixture with 1156 sockets if nothing is available. I can bend a 90 degree angle if I have to make a bracket for the anchor & windex lights.

I have read the LED anchor light topic on the C250 forum.

Also I might look around auto supply stores for some truck lights that fit my LED's that look like the one Turk showed. Trucks have lots of all-weather exterior light options, and these old tail-light bulb bases are quite common.

Edited by - JohnP on 02/04/2008 20:56:31

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 02/04/2008 : 16:54:15

How did you secure the a-frame to the forward lower deck fittings (eyebolts)?

Edited by - on

JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

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1520 Posts

Response Posted - 02/04/2008 : 20:08:15

I used pieces of heavy, round electrical cord, probably saved from an old vacuum cleaner or something like that, tied with a square knot. Three loops of a wire like that held the block at the bow, too. Simple and effective.

Edited by - JohnP on 02/04/2008 20:13:26

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 02/05/2008 : 06:13:22

John,

You really did have some extra time on your hands to draw up and lod tose excellent pictures. Looks like another future project for me to add to the list - work on an "A" frame.

I also had the steaming/deck light combo changed out and relaced it (the housing and all) with an exact replacement from believe Signal Marine. My thought was that I do not use those lights so often and so not as much to gain with an LED light replacement. Also, that light is a bit easier to change out than the one on top of the mast...and the anchor light is more of an amperage dra when sleeping overnight on anchor - so that one has more benefit to replace with an LED because of the amperage draw and harder to perform maintenance on it.

The one that I would consider next as an LED replacement would be the bow running light or the stern light but these are easy enough to replace. The bow light is expensive as an LED replacement. The one I would consider would be the Lopolight - Just do a search on Lopolight and you will pick it up on the web. It's expensive...and if you can live with the amperage draw on a regular basis, then best to not go the LED route...unless just want to modernize and go the high - tech route...consider the Lopolight.

Edited by - on

JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

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1520 Posts

Response Posted - 02/05/2008 : 08:00:46

Larry,
You're right - No sailing & lots of time thinking about it. Thanks for the info about sources of lights. I found Aqua Signal Marine navigation lights at JMSOnline.
http://www.jmsonline.net/AQUA-SIGNAL-NAVIGATION-LIGHTS_page_2.htm
Hundreds of types.
And the Lopolight models look really good, too, although at that price I am already designing a knock-off using my taillight that cost 9 bucks.
http://mauriprosailing.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD& Product_Code=LOP200012& Category_Code=LOPPLEA
Let's see...aluminum cylinder...rubber gaskets...stainless screws...fits onto a white plastic fresnel piece from another light...or else from a plastic drinking glass...THAT WILL BE ABOUT $10 MORE! Wiring lights is easy. And I can probably spring for that.

It's the wiring harness that may be important to get from CD. Since I have no wiring up to the mast top I need new wiring. Does anyone think a homemade, soldered harness can be as reliable as the commercial product?

Edited by - JohnP on 02/05/2008 08:42:00

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 02/05/2008 : 08:30:21

John,

Could you email those pics to use as a guide in our inaugural mast raising? It is one of those things that I'm afraid I'll screw up. We have friends helping us the first time, but their boat is a Hinterhoeller 28, and there may be nuances that are just different enough to cause trouble.

Thanks in advance!

Edited by - on

JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

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1520 Posts

Response Posted - 02/05/2008 : 08:37:15

Chris,
If you right click on each picture, you can save them or send them anywhere you like. I like to paste them into Word and then fix them up before printing, so I don't waste paper and toner. Or just keep them on your iPhone or laptop and use that as a guide down at your friend's boat. No paper at all.

What differences do you think might be a problem?

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 02/05/2008 : 09:30:44

Actually, I don't know what to expect. It is the mast on our boat (which is a CAT25) that we will be raising/lowering. I just don't know what to expect since I haven't done this before.

I will try right-clicking, but I fear the loss of resolution going from a small image (here) to a larger one. Thanks again for posting the images!

Edited by - on

JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 02/05/2008 : 12:10:33

Chris,
The schematics come out badly when enlarged. PM sent.

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Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 02/05/2008 : 12:11:18

Thanks John!

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JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

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1520 Posts

Response Posted - 02/05/2008 : 13:31:11

Thanks to those who have discussed and shown their A-frame pix previously. Some were more suited to trailering, and some to lightweight, stowable equipment for use on the water. The situation seems to be more complicated for those with a furler, but that's not me. Here are two of these posts with especially nice pix:

tm-hansen'ssetup:
You can copy & paste this and correct the symbol before you hit enter.
http://www.geocities.com/tm-hansen"atsign"sbcglobal.net/Mastup.html

Turk's setup:
http://www.elmhurstprop.com/mastraise/index.htm

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OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3467 Posts

Response Posted - 02/05/2008 : 16:30:03

John,

In regards to using the Catalina wiring harness for mast wiring, that is probably the easiest approach. However, the guy that wired my mast, did so while my boat was in the finger slip, dropped the mast and used 2 pair of duplex wires. On my '89 mast, there is a black sheath inside and so those wires do not rattle, they are contained and secure. But I do not believe all Catalina 25s have a sheath inside the mast and besides using the sheath it becomes a bit tedious getting the wires to come out for the steaming/deck housing. The combo of dealing with the sheath and rewiring dropping the mast in the finger slip and working while boat floating basically burnt him out. I helped a bit (that is...with the mast rewiring..not with burning him out).

Then when winter season came, I rewired the inside cabin wiring, added an eight circuit breaker switch panel made by BEP (Austrailia but bought thru Boaters World) and replaced the deck connector to connect with the new mast wiring. For inside the cabin, I used Anchor Brand Mast wire which was a 5 strand 14 gage wires inside a round cable sheathing. I used the 3 positives leads for the 3 lights on the mast and the negative lead. Then used the extra positive wire and the negative lead for wiring to one of the two fans I installed, this one being inside the main cabin high on the bulkhead separating the cabin from the porta potti area. The fan can swing and lock in universal positions so it can swing toward the VBerth or used for the main cabin. When used for the cabin, if I lower the table, I have to first swing the fan out of the way which is a minor thing. My plan was to eventually cut down the table and mount it permamently with swing hinges since I do not like the present setup which requires fully taking it off the bulkhead and slippng it into the table mounts located on the bulkhead at table height. I then wired a separate fan located in the quarterberth area and connected both fans to a dedicated circuit breaker switch on the new panel. These fans besides being able to swing out, also can be turned 360 degrees within their mount and also pointed up or down.
They have 3 sppeds but the first two speeds are all that are needed. They also have timers buit-in allowing for 2,4 or 6 hours run-time before auto shut-down. (Caframo Scirroco fans were bought mail-order thru West Marine catalog. Turns out that was a smart thing because one fan was damaged with a broken frame and I was bale to arrange for replacement thru the local West Marine Store. They basically ordered a fan for me and then when it came in, they just swapped it with my broken one saving me the trouble of mailing it back.)

Pjhotos regarding the inside accessories added are on my website.

Edited by - OLarryR on 02/05/2008 16:42:58

JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

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1520 Posts

Response Posted - 02/05/2008 : 17:02:32

Larry,
Thanks for the tips about the frustrations of wiring a 28' long hollow tube. I will make sure to use the steaming light wire to draw a guide string down the mast.

Your fan looks like a great mod, given the sweltering heat of the summer. Last summer I anchored out once with a friend from out of town on a hot humid night and made good use of the pop-top for ventilation covered with a 12'x18' netting.

All that is inside my mast besides the 2-strand wire for the steaming light is a bird's nest that had turned to powder after who knows how long.

I will price out the kind of wire your electrician used versus the CD harness to see what's best for me.

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3467 Posts

Response Posted - 02/05/2008 : 17:12:01

John,

I am on a travel/training near Philadelphia and will be back tomorrow night. I have limited internet access using the hotel lobby PC.

As far as the birds nest...can't help you with renesting...if that is your desire. As far as the wires...there are two good sources that others recommended to me on this Forum.

http://genuinedealz.com
http://bestboatwire.com/

Genuinedealz use to sell Anchor Brand Mast Wire but I cannot find it on their website at this time. Here is the wire from the Anchor Website:

http://www.ancorproducts.com/scpt/SectionPage.php?loadSubs=Ancor_WIRE%20AND%20CABLE_ROUND%20MAST#

If interested in it, you may have to search for other venders that offer it or call/EMail GenuideDealz.

I found the wiring less expensive and more selection from those websites than what was available locally. Though, more convenient locally. Also, considering the lengths , overall, that you need, look at the wiring charts on the web or in the West Marine catalog for what is recommended based on amp load. It's a long way up the mast (and down since you have to figure the roundtrip wiring) and may be some load loss if using 16 gage the whole way to the switch panel, that is why I went with 14 gage. If using an LED Anchor light...well then the 14 gage is probably overkill...but that is what I used. Really should not mis-match wiring but...probably better if using 16 gage in the mast to at least use 14 gage inside cabin so not a total length that has more load resistance. Maybe we have some electrical experts that can provide more opiniions regarding that...if you go 14 gage whole way, then it is basically perfect. Probably no real issues with 16 gage and believe that is what was stock on the boat...but can't remember for sure. (Big help I am ! Anyway...better to square this away before starting job. The at least you don't question it later if answers flushed out now.)

Edited by - OLarryR on 02/05/2008 21:38:49

JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

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1520 Posts

Response Posted - 03/24/2008 : 14:17:16

A few weeks ago I had [url="http://www.amazon.com/Sailboat-Electrics-Simplified-Don-Casey/dp/0070366497"]rewired[/url] the switch panel for the anchor light and the steaming ("bow") light and led the [url="http://genuinedealz.com/"]16G cable[/url] through the cabin along the deck hull joint cover strip to the head and up through the cabin top to a [url="http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/producte/10001/-1/10001/13779/377%20710/0/through%20deck%20connector/Primary%20Search/mode%20matchallpartial/0/0?N=377%20710&Ne=0&Ntt=through%20deck%20connector&Ntk=Primary%20Search&Ntx=mode%20matchallpartial&Nao=0&Ns=0&keyword=through%20deck%20connector&isLTokenURL=true&storeNum=5002&subdeptNum=9&classNum=316
"]4-pin through deck fitting [/url]

Thanks to some decent weather and my launch date coming up next week, with the bottom and rudder still left to paint this weekend, I got around yesterday to installing my new [url="http://www.jmsonline.net/ALL-ROUND-ANCHOR-LIGHT.htm"]Hella anchor light fixture[/url] with a [url="http://item.express.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ExpressItem&item=5810617865&ssPageName=ADME:B:EEOCA:US:13001
"]32-LED bulb.[/url]

There was a hole at the top of the mast for an anchor light cable, but no bracket and no fixture any more. Previous owners must have been inveterate day sailors. I planned to fit the anchor light right onto the windex bracket and made a base to go under the bracket out of an old 1-1/4"oak board with some woodworking tools & varnishing it with 4 coats. I cut a slot for the bracket, left a groove for the mast harness cable to come up through a hole in the bracket, and then drilled 2 screw holes to mount the fixture above the bracket. I had already tested the fit of the LED bulb and its polarity in the fixture using small batteries at home.

I also made an aluminum conical mirror to push all the light out to the sides. More than half of the LEDs face upwards.

I used an aluminum roof flashing sheet cut with scissors into a circle to make the cone that fit snugly inside the fixture above the bulb. I left a small cutout to light up the windex. With this mirror about 90-95% of the light shines horizontally.

Testing the anchor light circuit polarity and continuity before re-installation of the windex.

I widened the hole at the top of the mast to fit the 3/4" rubber grommet that came with the Catalina Direct mast wiring harness kit. Getting a guide string from there to the base of the mast was a challenge. I first tried to use 3/4" pvc pipe which didn't go up past the spreaders. Then I tried a brand new electrician's snake, which went about 10' before getting coiled up inside the mast. I then tried a 3" circular magnet to pull a 1/4" drill bit and nylon string wrapped by duct tape down the mast. That went all the way to the steaming light in a minute. If I had re-raised and lowered the mast I could have dropped that heavy drill bit to the bottom, but raising and lowering require arranging the shrouds with lots of caution and was my method of last resort.

Here is the anchor light installed. It even works!

I took apart the steaming light fixture and used the cable to lead two guide strings from the top and middle down the mast to the base. I removed the "antique" teak base of the original steaming light, sanded it and refinished it with some Cetol. I had tested the polarity of the steaming light fixture at home previously. The I installed a new LED bulb in the steaming light fixture and it worked ok through the new mast harness, too.

I didn't like sliding the mast along the mast crutch with the above design. So after dropping the mast, I took the crutch home and added a roller, made using a fixed 1-1/2" oak dowel and a rolling ~2" section of pvc pipe. It rolls well with the mast on it.

Among the sailors and hired help working on their boats was a new marina parking lot neighbor from a marina down the Magothy River who brought his 20-year old C-42 in to have the skeg that holds the prop shaft repaired. We got to talking about boats and repairs, and he gave me a grand tour of his boat. Holy cow! It's just beautful inside!!! As I climbed down his boarding ladder I thanked him and then waited a few seconds for him to realize that he no longer needed the aggravation of owning such a headache and that I'd be a much better owner...

...That didn't happen for some reason or other, so I went back to work on Gypsy, which looked a bit less glitzy, but certainly felt like home when I climbed back aboard to finish the job.

I raised the mast slowly with the A-frame, after un-taping the various shrouds and stays and looping them overboard with turnbuckles straightened. The force needed at the start was more than the weight of the mast, and hauling in the boom vang from the cabin top helped start it.

Theoretically, the A-frame, jib halyard and mast form just about what is a right triangle, and from my high school physics vector diagrams (with a refresher from the www), I think the force to move the horizontal mast upward should be approximately the weight of the mast divided by the sine of the angle (sin = opposite / hypotenuse) provided by the A-frame (sin 30deg = 0.5); so the force is about 70 lbs/0.5 = 140 lbs. If you made a higher A-frame, it would need less force to lift the mast, but it would take much more effort to install the A-frame itself!!! By the time the mast was at 45deg about half of its weight was pushing on the mast step and it only took a little tug on the mainsheet run through the cabintop clutch (70 lbs/2 = 35 lbs) to pull it up further. It sure felt like those were the forces.

The mast is now back up where it belongs. I tuned the mast with my newly acquired expertise from reading on this forum and a few pages on the web, and the mast is straighter now than it was last year. I have to re-tune after sailing, too.

All in all, a simple installation and fix, and the next time I have to re-wire a C-25 mast, I'll be very confident. When will that be, about the year 2028?

I learned a lot about the boat and sailboat wiring and lights, and I am sure later this summer I will gaze up at the anchor light and the stars, lounging on the double bed air mattress in the cabin, and I will try to remember the hassles of working on the boat in the winter.

Happy sailing, all

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The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.