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4" Buffer Review

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OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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Initially Posted - 01/19/2008 : 18:10:28

Check other posting(s) on past info/background. I mentioned that I was interested in a cordless 4" Buffer, reviewed a few on the web (none in local stores), had one shipped and tried it out today. Here is a review of it along with perceptions/info regarding others I reviewed on the web:

Bought from J&P Cycles (Motorcycles) 4" Cycle Buff Polisher/Buffer
variable speed up to ~3000rpm, 9.6V battery, orbital w/accesory pads.
I rate it 2 out of 5 stars. That's about same rating as one site that had ratings for a Ryobi later on this posting. My experience today was that the battery maintains fast rpm for about an hour. Manual indicates battery life improves proportionatly by 4 th recharge. Power is fine. It does so-so as far as using it with oxidation cleaner. Buffing is better. I went with this model because of battery size, orbital and variable speed. The variable speed is overstated and so is the orbital movement. The issue is that the rotational wheel is not direct drive and so if there is the slightest pressure applied, the wheel slows down significantly or stops while the motor is still turning fast. The orbits are not wide circles and since you really cannot apply any real pressure (sort of like a Dremel tool), there is no chance that you are going to do a number on the GelCoat from going over one area too much. The variable speed is not necessary since you need full speed anyway to maximize any pressure on the area worked. It does not really speed the operation over doing it by hand, rather, it gives your hand a break. For tough dirt, stains, past coatings, etc you windup removing 60% by the polisher/buffer and then the stubborn small marks, etc areas doing them by hand anyway. Also, it is more expensive than the other ones listed below. I may return it and try another. Here is the link for info on it (and by the way...I saw a posting somewhere that a guy indicated a Harley Davidson store had it for $20 less):
http://www.jpcycles.com/productgroup.aspx?GID=697438B4-D446-4173-94EA-E9364E2C4202&search=buffer&store=Harley&page=1

Sears Craftsman 4" Cordless Scrubber (but it's also a polisher/buffer), $59.95, 9.6V, non-orbital, 2 low speeds - no high speed Sears - Easy to return, usually reputable tools, If direct drive, then perhaps better than a variable speed, orbital slip drive as the above unit.
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00911229000P?keyword=polisher

Ryobi 6" Cordless $29.97, needs 18V Battery $34.95 sold separately, 18V, may not be orbital, 4000RPM. May or may not be direct drive. Larger buffer needs the larger battery. Larger and may be abit cumbersome working on vertical sides of the cockpit. Reviews on Home Depot website gave it mostly 1 star with one guy who gave it 5 stars ---figure that one out ? Ryobi 18V battery pack universal to about 20 other Ryobi tools - so that is a benefit.
http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&productId=100485410&N=10000003+90401+1688&marketID=401&locStoreNum=8125

Chicago Electric (Harbor Freight) 4" Cordless $29.95, 4.8V w/2 batteries included, non-orbital, 2775rpm. Pretty inexpensive especially considering it comes w/extra battery...I have my doubts on this unit measuring up and a 4.8V battery seems kind of wimpy.
If you have dealt with Harbor Freight and like their products...maybe okay.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=93480

WEN Cordless Polisher, $45.97, 4.8V, orbital, not sure of speed, accessories include sanding discs. I remember WEN products from a long time ago - think they have a good reputation. But..this is only a 4.8V battery tool and may have limited battery life/satisfaction with it's ooomph. WEN website does have accessory supplies if you want/need them.
http://www.wenproducts.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=4

Autosports Cordless Polisher, On sale $34.97, 4.8V, orbital, not sure of speed, accessories include sanding discs. Seems very similar..maybe same as WEN. Maybe. Wimpy battery ?
http://www.autosportcatalog.com/index.cfm/fa/p/pid/3470/cid/38/sc/46584

Except for the low speed of the Craftsman, it comes with a 9.6V battery, Craftsman name and generally easy return policy...I may try that one next. The 4.8V units seem too wimpy...but WEN has a good reputation and they are there if you need replacement pads, etc. Ryobi...has overall negative reviews posted but has a beefy battery. It is also larger and while that may be good for a car or the hull, for my needs, I wanted a smaller unit that can be worked in narrow areas like the cockpit vertical sides - seatback and under the seat veticle area which is tough to do by hand.

Then again after today's experience...maybe a couple of extra hands would be a better alternative !

Larry
'89 Robin's Nest#5820, Potomac River/Quantico, Va
http://catalina25.homestead.com/olarryr.html

Edited by - on

jerlim
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 01/20/2008 : 10:03:27

Larry - Thanks for the product review!

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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3463 Posts

Response Posted - 01/30/2008 : 22:38:39

Update:
I returned the 4" Cycle Buffer because the pad would stop while polishing while the motor kept spinning - was not direct drive. They gave me full credit back on my credit card...and covered return shipping.

I noticed another polisher/buffer to consider - West Marine does not have it in stores near me but on-line they have a 7" cordless buffer with a 12 volt battery. 2-3 people wrote reviews of it accessible on-line. The reviews were semi-mixed but overall favorable. It appears to be direct drive...but one review indicated that with some pressure applied, the buffer would also stop on the work surface a little sooner than he expected. Also, a 7" buffer is a bit larger than i wanted - Desired a 4" which could get into nooks and crannies easier and easier to hold when working on the lower vertical surfaces in the cockpit area.

Reading above about my info on the Sears 4" - that is one that I have now ordered and will report out on it. My thought is that even though it has a somewhat smaller battery than the West Marine - WMH Buffer, since the WMH Buffer is 7"...it has more surface square inches of resistance and so the torque needed is that much greater than what would be needed for the Sears 4". So...my hope is that the Sears unit is direct drive and will have sufficient torque to make the buffer beneficial for use on the boat.

We shall see ! Hope to get it by next Monday-Tuesday at the latest.

Edited by - on

Prospector
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Response Posted - 01/31/2008 : 08:10:06

This may seem silly - Why cordless? I haven't started shining our boat yet (I would need a shovel to) but it seems to me that if you plug in to th eonboard shore power, the cord wouldn't be long and dragging, and you could work with it.

Again, I haven't started our FG work, so I am just asking - is cordless that big of a deal? BTW, this is coming from a guy who still prefers dragging a cord to changing batteries on drills)

Edited by - on

John Russell
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Response Posted - 01/31/2008 : 08:25:43

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Prospector
 This may seem silly - Why cordless? I haven't started shining our boat yet (I would need a shovel to) but it seems to me that if you plug in to th eonboard shore power, the cord wouldn't be long and dragging, and you could work with it.

Again, I haven't started our FG work, so I am just asking - is cordless that big of a deal? BTW, this is coming from a guy who still prefers dragging a cord to changing batteries on drills)
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
A lot of guys are on mooring balls or in slips without power. I guess you could do a quick buff while becalmed someday.

In my case, the boat is stored on the marina yard and I have access to power but I need 150' of extension cords to buff prior to launch.

Edited by - on

OLarryR
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Response Posted - 01/31/2008 : 11:44:24

I probably mentioned this somewhere higher up in the posting thread - My marina charges $20/mo for electric and since I have a solar panel for charging the batteries for the daily trickle down and for occasional other needs like nightime use of running lights, I do not pay for the electric. I could pay $3/day but I have a cordless dremel and that pretty much takes care of the power tool needs except for seeing if a buffer would be of benefit. A wired buffer would be fine and because of the robust nature of a 120VAC power tool, then there probably would be no need to go thru a lengthy review of which buffers work best. Since some of the cordless buffers are not direct drive and may also not have sufficient torque and most are not available to even look at in the local stores, that's why i started this posting and share my experiences.

if you have electric and want a buffer...West Marine, Home depot have them o the shelves and you can check them out. probably all would work fine except if not direct drive.

Edited by - on

OLarryR
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Response Posted - 02/02/2008 : 17:44:33

Latest update -
The Sears 4" Scrubber/Polisher arrived the other day. I had a chance to use it this morning. This is a nice unit with a number of fine features but has one drawback which I see now that it will be the same story with any cordless that can really do the job. The battery power lasts for a short time and then you either need to use a second battery or that is about it after 15 minutes. It may last longer, perhaps a 1/2 hour, after the battery is charged 2-3 times.

The bottom line seems to be regarding buffers - If you have access to electric, then go with a 120VAC buffer. Then you will have plenty of power and time to accomplish the job. If you do not have electric or choose not to pay for it, then consider a small cordless buffer with not less than a 9.6DC rechargeable battery and consider buying a second battery - Also do not consider it if you are anxious to complete the job in the same day/weekend. If on the other hand, you do not mind working on maintenance for say 1/2 hour and then go sailing and then accomplish your work more piecemeal over a number of days or weeks as you get around to it...then the Sears unit is a good one !

Sears Scrubber/Polisher Review:
1) It is a rugged looking unit. Comes with circular and cone shaped scrubbers, a polishing applicator bonnet & washing bonnet w/attachment and a separate buffing pad w/attachment. Having two attachments/adapters facilitates switching from polishing to buffing without having to take off the cloth bonnet and tie the other one on. Just pull off the one attachment and push the other one on.
2) Comes with a nice Craftsman bucket you can store the tool, accessories and the bottles of polish, etc you choose. You can sit on the bucket and you can also use it as a water bucket.
3) Has two speeds and an on/off button. This is better than a variable speed unit if the variable speed has no lock position. The trigger finger can get tired if the variable speed has no lock. On the Sears unit, select the speed and click the button. No constant need to press the trigger.
4) It's direct drive - Actually it's gear driven and the slower speed develops more torque. However, the speeds are no where near other buffers 3000rpm. Both speeds on the Sears unit are under 1000rpm. But all motor torque is transferred to the pad.
5) The applicator bonnet and the buffing bonnet, do not slip on the adapter as they do on some other units based on reviews I have read.
6) The Sears unit is submersible. Why they made it capable of that is beyond me but for us sailboaters...if your boat is in the water and you want to wash/scrub the area near the waterline...guess you can do that !
7) It has an accessory handle that can be screwed in one of 3 optional locations on the unit depending on what hand hold/stability you desire.
8) How does it perform ? It does a good job compared to doing it by hand. I have areas of my cockpit side walls that have a discolored as in dull/dirty look from something that looks like old Polyglow, etc coating. The Poliglow Poliprep I have not used yet on the cockpit areas but that liquid is pretty strong and probably would remove it, however, using 3M Oxidation cleaner on the polishing applicator, the Sears Unit does a better job/faster than by hand using same oxidation cleaner. This is a heavy duty cleaning that is needed and should be considered not typical of perhaps what you would need to use a polisher/buffer for and that takes a lot of going over to get it off. The exception is if there is a small area or line that needs to be gone over a lot, then better to do that specific area by hand rather than waste battery power since the polisher is going over a much wider area draining the battery.

The deficiency is that the Sears unit konked out after about 15 minutes of use and the cleaning/polishing/waxing of just a 1 1/2 ft area on the sidewall near the wood trim/coaming. The rechargeable battery was only initially charged and supposedly gains full power after 2-3 successive recharges...so maybe after more use, I will get perhaps 1/2 hour use out of it. My thought is that if the condition of your cockpit area is in pretty good shape and you just want to perform a polishing and waxing of the sidewalls without the need of working an area with a heavy oxidation cleaner, then the unit will run for a longer time.

I am going to keep it. I am charging it now (3 hrs to charge after initial charging rcmd'd of 5 hrs that I did the other day). Then I am going to use the scrubber on my son's tiled shower. I'll see how that goes....and his shower area is also a non-typical area needing mucho hand force to clean it sufficiently. (Better for me to not use the Sears unit...just get my son to do it ! LOL)

Hope some of you have found this helpful if considering a cordless unit....I wanted to tell a fair account of going this route. It may not be the best thing to buy....consider if you can use an electric one and/or you do not mind working in small maintenance increments of time with a cordless.

Edited by - OLarryR on 02/02/2008 17:51:01

John Russell
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Response Posted - 02/02/2008 : 18:14:25

I bought the Ryobi unit today from Home Depot. It was on sale for $19 and I already have a couple of the batteries. We'll see how it works.

Edited by - on

OLarryR
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Response Posted - 02/02/2008 : 18:46:34

$19 ...what a deal !

The Home Depots in my area only have the wired unit. They have a picture of the cordless. I read the reviews on the Home Depot website. They gave it an average rating. One reviewer had problems with the bonnet slipping because it was either not tied tightly enough or he could not get to tie it tight. My thought if this becomes an issue is to stick velcro tape underneath the bonnet and see if that works or maybe you will have no issues.

Please give us an update !

Edited by - on

GaryB
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Response Posted - 02/02/2008 : 18:53:34

Larry,

What is the Model # of the Sears unit yo purchased?

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OLarryR
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Response Posted - 02/02/2008 : 23:15:45

John,
I was just thinking again about the Ryobi and read your comment again. I believe the Ryobi is sold without the battery for about $29. So $19 is quite a buy. I assume you have other Ryobi tools and so you had the battery(ies) already ? Otherwise, for someone buying the unit for first time, I believe Home Depot regularly sells the battery individually for $34.95. (Maybe it is on sale as well.)

Gary,
The Sears unit is Model #11229
I have a direct link to it some place up above in this posting thread - One of my long postings. It actually has links for many of the cordless units including the Ryobi.

You may want to wait and see how John makes out with the Ryobi unit. Both the Sears and Ryobi units have decent and different attributes...as well as one or two drawbacks. The Ryobi has a whopping 18 volt battery for double the power of the Sears unit but it's also rotating a bigger surface area that will create more workload for the motor. The buffer has a top speed of 4000rpm which is similar/same range as electric units, while the Sears unit has a max speed of only 750rpm.

By the way, I am taking a training class in an area near Philadelphia, PA and will be leaving around 1-2pm tomorrow, Sunday. I may/may not have access to the web unitl I get back Wednesday night. So...may have to catch up on this thread when I return.
So...if no response with updates posted here...then it's probably because I am out of town.

Edited by - on

John Russell
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Response Posted - 02/03/2008 : 08:45:20

I have other Ryobi 18v tools that I bought some time ago with 2 batteries and a quick charger. That's why I grabbed the buffer when I saw the sale price.

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tchowes
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Response Posted - 02/03/2008 : 09:10:01

I'll have to go to Home Depot to check out the sander. I bought the Ryobi 18v system with 10 attachments two years ago. Great stuff. It came with a detail sander. Very nice unit for sanding the teak down (mine needed it badly). I've got to think the Ryobi is also lighter than the 11" beast I've been using.

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OLarryR
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Response Posted - 02/03/2008 : 10:52:08

Here's update on the Sears unit after second recharge and using the scrubber attachment on a tiled shower floor:

I now see why Sears calls it a Cordless Scrubber. The attachments for scrubbing work very well on a tiled shower removing discoloring that has been there for eons. It starts with using an abrasive cleaner. After trying various cleaners including soft scrub what worked best was Bon Ami. The Scrubber lasted a lot longer after this second recharge - It was on approximately 1/2 hour with a mix of slow (250rpm) and fast speed (750rpm). My assessment of the longer run time was the following factors: Battery life is suppose to improve during the first 3 or so recharges; scrubbing attachment is a smaller diameter and the bristles while thick are not solid surface contact like a polishing pad which would create more resistance.

Anyway, I was satisfied with it's scrubbing action. I also see that it could be of real benefit on the deck non-skid areas. Last season, I had briefly used the West Marine/Boat US Non-Skid Cleaner (same as Starbrite product) but only practiced on a small area doing it by hand. Never did get back to doing the deck. The instructions call for scrubbing action with the non-skid cleaner/polisher and the Sears unit would be able to be used for that and with sufficient battery power to at least make a dent in the job after say 1/2 hour use. Hopefully, the battery life will increase a bit more...otherwise, I think I may just stick to the one battery for now.

Edited by - OLarryR on 02/03/2008 10:53:20

GaryB
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Response Posted - 02/03/2008 : 11:02:01

Thanks for the update Larry. I'll probably pickup one of these today if they have it in stock at the store. I mainly want to use it in the cockpit area and will probably be bored by the time I use up one charge on the battery. So the short time period might work well for me.

If nothing else I have a bathtub and tile that needs to be scrubbed.

BTW, normally a slower speed is better/safer for buffing and polishing!

Edited by - GaryB on 02/03/2008 11:05:48

tchowes
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Response Posted - 02/03/2008 : 15:33:15

Curious how that goes, Larry. Last Fall I scrubbed the non-skid of my 25' Catalina which had been left in the elements for nearly four years. (the non-skid was green). I used greased lightning with a stiff brush. Worked very well, though it did require some "sweat equity" on my part. The only part I had difficulty getting was in tight corners behind deck hardware. I'll get the rest once it's on the water in the Spring.

I then used 3M Superduty rubbing compound to get rid of the oxidation. Overall, I was amazed.

I'll have to definitely try an orbital scrubber next time, maybe even this Spring.

Edited by - on

OLarryR
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Response Posted - 02/05/2008 : 06:21:33

I think the Sears unit will work well on the non-skid area. I tried it for just a minute or so...I was mainly working on the cockpit vertical walls. Just don't use Bon-Ami on the non-skid as I did on the shower stall at home. Bon-Ami is very abrasive...at least my thought. The non-skid products work pretty good but some are expensive so ude something else to get the hard stuff off and then rcmd the Starbrite Non-skid cleaner because Woodys Non-Skid has a Cadillac price for a Cadillac finish and the Aurora Non-Skid is not as good as the Starbrite/West Marine product. I used the Aurora Non-Skid but then was able to get the West Marine/Starbrite in the Boat US Headquarters store (which is a West Marine Store) it still had some of same product still under the Boat US name for under a $1.00. I bought about 6 bottles of the stuff.

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John Russell
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Response Posted - 04/05/2008 : 21:54:17

Well, I finally had the right kind of weather to try out my Ryobi 18v 6" cordless buffer/polisher.

It was great!

I was worried that the battery wouldn't last very long but I worked for about 30 minutes without any appreciable loss of power. I just used the small buffer to polish the bootstripe and below to the bottom paint. I thought it was easier to control than my 10" will be tomorrow when I finish the remainder of the hull.

The down side was the weight. I was working on the boat with the boot stripe at about eye level on the trailer. So, you can picture the arm angle. I may not be able to lift my arms tomorrow. Nah, not really, but it was tiring. I think this will be a great help in polishing the nooks and crannies of the deck.

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OLarryR
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Response Posted - 04/06/2008 : 08:15:17

John,

I guess the 18V battery is the secret to it's long run hrs. My Craftsman 4" has only a 9.6V battery and so it usually dies out after about 20Min w/use of a heavy oxidation cleaner. If used for buffing or scrubbing, it seems to last a bit longer. I could buy another battery for it but I have settled into using it for short periods and then getting on with other things - sometimes combining a little bit of work and then going out sailing.

So....looks like after a number of products checked out, we have satisfactory uses of 2 different units so far - Ryobi & Craftsman. A cordless may not be adviseable for everyone for buffer/polisher/scrubber applications but it certainly has it's benefits for some of us.

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