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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

General Sailing Forum

White squall and we flip the dink motor attached

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redviking
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1771 Posts

Initially Posted - 01/21/2008 : 09:41:37

I have always heard that towing a dink was potentially a bad idea if weather conditions deteriorated. Until now, nothing bad ever happened. We were at the Marina thinking about taking showers when we noticed the wind piping up a bit. Hmmm... time to go back to the boat. As we were getting onto our Zodiac an older fellow walked by and said, "you heard about the Tornado watch, right?" Huh? It's January in Florida!!!! Sure enough, 70 mph winds moving at 60 miles an hour straight towards us.

We fly towards the boat and the winds keep piping up. We board and start thinking about moving from the anchorage to the marina. $1.95 a foot for 39 feet is not cheap but OK we'll go. Engine starts but runs a bit rough. Winds now at 35 and building. Start to pull up the hook when my wife yells that the engine has stopped. OH blank!!!! Go down below and start it up again, still running rough. Give it more gas and she stays running. start to pull hook again. Wife yells that the engine has died. !@#!#$@$$%%&*(!!!!! Throw out more chain and go down below, look at filter bowl, clean as a whistle. Crank it up again and she fires strong. Resume hauling hook, windlass does nothing. Now blowing 45. Reset breaker. Walkie talkies useless. Yell instructions to wife as I try to pull chain. Jammed on windlass. @!@##$%^&*(!!!!!! Work that out and finally the hook comes up.

OK, missed the bridge opening so we call for an emergency opening. What's your emergency? Are you flipping high? It's now blowing 55 and I can't see past my bow. Bridge of Lions BridgeMaster I owe you a case of beer if we ever meet you opens bridge. At that point I notice something red floating in the water. one of my old pfd's. Hmmmm, now I notice Zodiac upside down and pulling hard. OH, CRAP!!!!! Made it through the bridge with the dink slowing us down and straining against the painter. Now blowing 60. Still can't see.

Where's the damn Marina? Hail them and they talk us in. Mind you the Bridgemaster could not see us as we were going thru!!!!! Get to the dock, (there is not enough beer in the world for this one) tie up and start to work on the dink. Suction, I mean you couldn't break it. The damn thing really wanted to stay that way. Finally we broke the vacuum and flipped her over. Yesterday I managed to get the 2 stroke unpickled and started and all is well other than a couple of pfd's and two oars lost.

BUT, my point is - if you tow and it blow, it might not be so much fun. Be safe out there!

Sten

DPO Zephyr - '82 C25, FK, SR
SV Lysistrata - C&C 39 - St. Augustine, FL

Edited by - on

Ed Cassidy
Captain

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USA
365 Posts

Response Posted - 01/21/2008 : 13:00:24

I'm on the other side of the river from you and at the barn when that storm came through. While it didn't remove any roof panels, it did bend three of them in half! I was scared and I was even near the water!
Ed

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dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 01/21/2008 : 13:34:24

Glad to hear that you made it to safety. sounds like you had a rough time of it.

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 01/21/2008 : 14:30:00

I'm impressed you were able to maintain enough control to dock in 60 knots with a virtual sea anchor dragging behind you! Good job! If you haven't already done it, I suggest a thorough spray-down of the engine with WD-40, inside and under everything. And don't be surprised if the coil and the electrical connections crap out after a while.

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piseas
Former Treasurer

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USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 01/21/2008 : 16:06:44

Sten, that is an amazing story. I got a new inflatable and motor last year and took a trip to our local Catalina Island here in SoCal. I did have the motor attached to the inflatable as it was a very mild day. I did come into some chop and kept an eye out but the inflatable held its own. I would never however do that in less favorable conditions.
Glad you are all ok. Thanks for the story.
Steve A

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redviking
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1771 Posts

Response Posted - 01/22/2008 : 07:12:31

In retrospect, we probably should have stayed put and just ride it out. An old Sparkman & Stevens designed Catalina 38 - I did not know there was such a thing - with a family of four and a dog and cat rode it out with 50' of chain and a 44 pound Bruce down. No windlass so they had no choice but to ride it out. The other vessel in the anchorage on a Mason 44 decided to go in after hearing us calling the marina. The herd mentality is alive and well out here.

But making a decision is better than not making one and this "drill" certainly gives my wife and I more confidence in our abilities and in our vessel. When you hear someone say on 16 "turn your radio on (I assume they meant weather) the storm is right on top of you. Best of luck to you" your mind goes into overdrive. if we had more time we would have dialed up weather and seen that there was only one cell moving thru. Our assumption was that this could be the first of many.

Thanks Dave, yeah they sell WD-40 by the gallon and believe me my outboard will never rust now LOL! The winds were coming from the north and they are working on the bridge so we were much better protected once making it thru the bridge and circling into the marina. There are huge barges all over the place and they really did make for a good breakwater. That being said, the Mason 44 hit the dock 4 times when he came in. I wasn't quite clear in all of the confusion about where the dockmaster wanted us, so i entered cautiosly and went too far, forcing a turn in tight quarters. My second approach was flawless, but by then the winds were down to about 40.

On a C25 you have no choice but to tow the dink or deflate it. I never tow the dink with the motor attached. This was an emergency and there was no time. I don't care how calm it is. It's a bad idea and I now believe that even more strongly. On our C25 we had a kickerboard for the outboard. Having a dink upside down is bad enough, but with a motor you have really complicated things. And again, you cannot believe how hard it is to flip it. Four men on a DOCK had trouble flipping our dink. Imagine being out there and trying to get it back upright. I would probably resort to our Barient 32 electric winch if I encounter this scenario again. C25's don't have those. If conditions get bad enough to flip your dink, I guarantee you will cut it free before trying to rescue it.

Ed - I'm in Oyster Creek near Hurricain Patty's - A dock... Going to get some canvas work done while we are here and do some work. Weather windows this time of year are too short and the temperature differential between us and the Bahamas is only about 10 degrees on average. We'll leave in a couple of weeks - so stop by if you wish or ping me for my cell...

Sten

DPO Zephyr - '82 C25, FK, SR
SV Lysistrata - C&C 39 - St. Augustine, FL

Edited by - on

DaveR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2015 Posts

Response Posted - 01/22/2008 : 07:49:02

Sten,
Stuff comes up quick here in Florida, huh? In the winter we're the line between cold and warm so severe weather is pretty common. A constant eye on the weather is a must. And I agree it would have been better to just stay put, the really rough stuff usually only lasts a few minutes. As far as towing an inflatable, in October when I tried to dock at Titusville Marina in choppy conditions with my dink on a leash, almost caused a problem. wasn't the dink's fault though, I just wasn't thinking ahead. So I have no problem with towing my dink w/motor, but I know I've got to stay on top of conditions. I'm sure in the future I'll use it for storage (while cruising)as well but again, with eyes open.

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redviking
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1771 Posts

Response Posted - 01/22/2008 : 08:51:01

Weather tends to move fast on the East Coast, but this was really fast! You Floridians get it year round. No wonder insurance companies are tough on boaters in this state! At the moment we can't find cost effective insurance for our vessel and are at the moment self insured with liability if we hit someone only. We were cool until we hit the state line!

Sten

DPO Zephyr - '82 C25, FK, SR
SV Lysistrata - C&C 39 - St. Augustine, FL

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DaveR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2015 Posts

Response Posted - 01/23/2008 : 07:32:46

Yeah it really stinks doesn't it? Last time I looked BoatUS wanted $1,000.00 a year to insure Bamboo. And the sad thing is, IMO between Daytona and St. Augustine is probably the safest place on the east coast of America (south of New York) for hurricanes. We've got the Bahamas to the south west that block and turn storms north and then an extremely warm Gulf Stream 50 miles out cruising north at a stiff pace. Hurricane sniff out and follow the warm water. And then if a storm comes up the coast it follows Cape Canaveral out north east, and off shore of us (as in Hurricane David in 1980). I don't agree with the blanket rates. Of course insurance is such a scam anyway ............ I mean, it's totally needed but someone is making WAY to much money from it.

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stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Response Posted - 01/23/2008 : 14:02:19

Sten - what kind of dink were you towing?

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redviking
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1771 Posts

Response Posted - 01/23/2008 : 14:30:07

Zodiac Cadet 310... A 10'2" inflatable.

Sten

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stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Response Posted - 01/23/2008 : 14:41:07

yikes...very similar to my 10' Zodiac. Mine has the round ended pontoons. I would never have suspected that it would be susceptible to suction when upside down.

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Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 01/23/2008 : 14:43:42

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by redviking
 Having a dink upside down is bad enough, but with a motor you have really complicated things. And again, you cannot believe how hard it is to flip it. Four men on a DOCK had trouble flipping our dink. Imagine being out there and trying to get it back upright. I would probably resort to our Barient 32 electric winch if I encounter this scenario again. C25's don't have those. If conditions get bad enough to flip your dink, I guarantee you will cut it free before trying to rescue it.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Another Newbie question - Could you not run aline to the end of your boom, and then to a winch? Put a lunch hook on the line off the end of the boom, and hook it onto the gunwhale of the dink (Better yet tie a bowline onto the tow handle). A topping lift would support the load on the boom, and the anchor should be able to raise the dink enough to break the vaccum once you put some muscle to the winch. After the vacuum is broken, flipping it shouldn't be too bad. Of course my only experience with flipped boats is with canoes which roll a lot easier than a flat, wide dinghy.

This is assuming a wood or Fibreglass dinghy of course; it wouldn't work on an inflateable, Unless you could get the anchor to hook onto the transom.

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redviking
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1771 Posts

Response Posted - 01/23/2008 : 14:57:33

You could run a line as you described Prospector, but imagine having to do all of that in conditions that created the scenario. I still say you'll probably cut it loose. Even with all of our "toys" - electric winches, electric windlass, 4/1 purchase block and tackle kit, 8/1 block and tackle kit - I considered cutting it free. The vacuum is amazing and if it had not happened to me I would have never believed it to be that difficult to flip.

Also, 2 oars and 2 oar locks for a Zodiac are $222 at WM. That was not a cheap date. Think I will tie them in from now on.

Sten

DPO Zephyr - '82 C25, FK, SR
SV Lysistrata - C&C 39 - St. Augustine, FL

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Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 01/23/2008 : 15:04:57

Good Point. My inexperience shows.

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redviking
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1771 Posts

Response Posted - 01/23/2008 : 15:21:24

But you are asking questions! love it! You are educating yourself! Too many people out here without experience don't ask questions or assume that they know "enough" to get by...

Sailing is a lifelong learning process - I learn something new almost every other day.

Sten

DPO Zephyr - '82 C25, FK, SR
SV Lysistrata - C&C 39 - St. Augustine, FL

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dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 01/23/2008 : 17:37:08

Just "thinking out loud" here, I wonder if you could bring the dink along side close to a winch, run a line all the way around the overturned dink, assuming it is not a hard shell inflatable, tie off one end to a cleat by the winch, and crank in on the other end of the line, squeezing the inflatable enough to break the vacuum without harming the boat. Of course, doing this in bad weather might be impossible!

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John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 01/23/2008 : 18:08:07

I wonder if a towing bridle on the bow of the dink might have prevented the flip in the first place? I assume you had the painter attached at single point. I'm not Monday morning quarterbacking, genuinely curious. Whadya'll think?

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redviking
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1771 Posts

Response Posted - 01/23/2008 : 20:13:43

Bridle always attached with float. Dinghy has attachment points on both port and starboard below and inside at the bow. Dink was attached with bridle and was being towed on a short leash such that they prop would not pick it up. There is no way to attach a Zodiac with a single line.

sten

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