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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Tohatsu vs. Yamaha auxiliary

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Even Chance
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Response Posted - 01/27/2008 : 14:51:52

I live five miles from Ed's Marine Superstore. I've been in there several times, and every time I had trouble getting someone to wait on me -- not because they were busy, but because they don't give a rip whether you buy from them or not. Everyone I've talked to says the same thing. And if you think their attitude is bad regarding sales, all the folks I've talked to who have tried to get them to honor warranties and do service say "forget it."

I bought my Honda 9.9 from the dealer closest to where my boat swims. I got a great deal, because they say they are more interested in being the place where I take the motor for service (Brown's Marine, Deltaville, VA). They are the opposite in every way to Ed's: everyone I talked to who has dealt with Brown's raves about them.

Think carefully about that couple hundred dollars you think you're saving with a distant dealer. One bad service call can wipe out all your savings. Buying locally is better for the economy, it builds relationships, and, if your motor is seriously ill, you're more likely to get a loaner. Try that with Ed's or onlineoutboards.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 01/27/2008 : 15:05:33

Brooke makes a good point... The internet is doing to some neighborhood "authorized dealers" what Home Dopey has done to neighborhood hardware stores, and Wal-Mart to entire neighborhoods. A brick-and-mortar dealer with a lease, an inventory, and qualified employees on the payroll can't compete on price with a web server on a loading dock. If you want the dealer to be around, you should consider giving him the business. As suggested, he might "reach" a little for it.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 01/27/2008 15:09:21

piseas
Former Treasurer

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Response Posted - 01/27/2008 : 21:14:48

I totally agree. I buy local, pay more but I feel its was worth it. I will get better service and keep these guys in business, I hope. Relationships are important. I myself am a small business owner. My dad started our insurance business over 55 yrs ago and I just brought my son in.
My neighbor ran a family electronics store but called it quits because of all the big boys. That saddens me. That's also why I will not buy anything from China.
Steve A

Edited by - on

Even Chance
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Response Posted - 01/28/2008 : 07:42:00

It's pretty hard to not buy anything from China -- as much as I agree with you, Steve. Not a single TV or DVD player is made in the US. Few clothes are made here anymore. My Toyotas were built in the US, but with parts made overseas. I suspect that most of the VHF radios in our boats were made overseas. There's an excellent article in yesterday's (1/27/08) New York Times magazine about how the US economy has completed its shift away from a manufacturing base, which makes politicians' promises about restoring manufacturing jobs . . . manure (E.g., there are more choreographers in the US than metalcasters, and three times more security guards than machinists. This may not be a good thing, but it's the reality).

The problem is that we're spitting into a hurricane. Most of the sails on our boats are actually made overseas (to specs by Ulman and North and Quantum and whomever), and they're made from Middle Eastern petroleum, which is also the key ingredient in fiberglass. As we say in my business, "none of us are without sin, no, not one."

On the other hand, those of us with sloop rigs are accustomed to sailing to weather, aren't we? So, even though there's no outboard that will fit on our boats being made in this country, at least I can buy from a local dealer.

Edited by - Even Chance on 01/28/2008 07:56:58

piseas
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Response Posted - 01/28/2008 : 08:00:00

Evan, you are absolutely right, its hard not buy from China. I look at everything now. Luckily I don't need much of anything. I have certainly cut down on buying.
I guess I will have to as a last resort only. It will probably have to be something for my C250.

Are any auxiliary's American made? or at least not made in China.

Steve A

Edited by - piseas on 01/28/2008 08:02:55

Even Chance
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Response Posted - 01/28/2008 : 11:23:36

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by piseas

Are any auxiliary's American made? or at least not made in China.

Steve A
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

With small engines -- our size -- Mercury and Nissan are made by Tohatsu; Evinrude and Johnson are made by Suzuki (but don't offer XL shaft); then there's Yamaha and Honda. There are no US-made small outboards.

Edited by - on

piseas
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Response Posted - 01/29/2008 : 17:20:58

Evan, so are they made in Japan and do they farm out to China?
Steve A

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Champipple
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Response Posted - 01/30/2008 : 03:09:18

Don't forget your members discount at Online Outboards...

Edited by - on

tchowes
1st Mate

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Response Posted - 01/30/2008 : 22:46:58

Thanks for the headsup on Ed's Marine Superstore. Sounds like buying an outboard at the registry of motor vehicles. I've ruled them out for this type of transaction.

I understand the position to do business with a lccal dealer. However, $500+ is a significant difference in price. The value we place in things are relative. I value my relationship with the local Tohatsu dealer. However, $500 is kinda steep in my eyes. If the price differential was a bit less, I'd go with the dealer for sure.

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piseas
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Response Posted - 01/31/2008 : 12:30:58

If you are like me, I am sure you could use that $500 for something-marine related of course.

Steve A

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Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 01/31/2008 : 13:02:55

Tim: Have you talked to that dealer? He might rather cut his margin a bit than lose the business... My local Honda dealer cut his to match a sale at Defender for my 2hp dinghy kicker.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 01/31/2008 13:03:19

tchowes
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Response Posted - 01/31/2008 : 22:34:01

Dave: Will definitely try. Ironically, I've known the dealer for over 10 years, having bought trailers from them. Ironically, I'd feel more comfortable asking for a price concession if I didn't know them at all. If my budget was relatively unlimited, the $500 would mean little. However, since this is the first year launch, there is a list of other expenses waiting in the wings (rigging repair, plumbing, electrical, new stove).

And yes, piseas, I could use that $500 for some other "marinium" =(make that $1,000 as in BOAT Break Out Another Thousand).

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
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Response Posted - 02/01/2008 : 11:13:33

OK, so if you know him well, how "comfortable" will it be when you have to explain that you bought on the web without at least giving him a chance to respond?

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 02/01/2008 11:15:00

dmpilc
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Response Posted - 02/01/2008 : 17:00:22

Some 2-stroke engines are apparently very efficient. LOL After I posted the item about the Emma Maersk, super container ship, over 1300 ft long, 207 ft beam; it has a single screw, 2-stroke diesel engine. However, the engine has 14 cylinders, bore is 38" and stroke is 96". Now THAT's a motor!!

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Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
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Response Posted - 02/01/2008 : 17:32:12

I can hardly imagine that's enough of an engine to push that boat!

Yes 2-strokes are efficient in some ways... Because they fire on twice as many revolutions, they're more efficient in terms of torque for a given displacement, but not in terms of fuel. If the fuel is also the lubricant, then the engine can't burn all of the fuel and will emit some of it unburned--that's the nature of the beast. Evinrude e-Tech is pretty much the state-of-the-art 2-stroke, and while it whips equivalent 4-strokes for torque and is more fuel efficient than a comparable Merc 2-stroke, it consumes more fuel (note I didn't say "burns") than any comparable 4-stroke (although Evinrude insinuates otherwise, without providing data).

Edited by - on

tchowes
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Response Posted - 02/01/2008 : 18:05:13

Dave, right on. Trust me, I've thought of the fact that I would have some 'splaining to do. I do have a very good friend who has been an outboard mechanic for 30 years and works on every brand, so for any service I can't handle, he's my man (and lives 1/2 mile from me to boot).

It's funny the discussion about fuel efficiency. From where I'm coming from (2 cycle 225hp 1995 Mercury OB on a 22' whaler), you could put a 1971 Johnson 9 1/2 on the 25, and it would still be more efficient. Plus it sleeps 5 (versus 2).

Given that I'm on a near vertical learning curve when it comes to sailboat ownership, I may well put that Tohatsu through its paces, more than the sails.

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John Russell
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Response Posted - 02/01/2008 : 18:43:50

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dave Bristle
 I can hardly imagine that's enough of an engine to push that boat!<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
From the Scandinavian Shippng Gazette:

"It has also been revealed that the Emma Mærsk is fitted with the largest diesel engine ever manufactured. A 14-cylinder 96 cm Wärtsilä engine of Flex-type with electronic control developing some 80,080 kW, has been built for this huge containership. Furthermore, the engine room is filled with auxiliary engines adding around 40,000 hp for servicing reefer containers. Added to these is a huge shaft-generator and a turbo-generator using exhaust heat from the funnel. The service speed will as usual be around 25 knots, which is a standard term in Maersk Line, but again it is likely that the Emma Mærsk will be capable of much more speed if needed, to make up for lost time in the tight schedules."

Too bad about the fire:

Edited by - on

dmpilc
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Response Posted - 02/02/2008 : 10:45:07

I read the article. The fire occurred during construction, started by a welder in the nearly completed accommodations section. Also saw a pic of the engine room while building the engine, laying in the crankshaft. Base of the engine looks to be about half the square footage of my home. Ha Ha.

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Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
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Response Posted - 02/02/2008 : 12:28:54

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by tchowes
 ...Given that I'm on a near vertical learning curve when it comes to sailboat ownership, I may well put that Tohatsu through its paces, more than the sails.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Many (if not most) cuising sailors find that, in order to really get to someplace, they end up motoring a majority of the time. Either the wind is "on the nose" (so tacking would take three times as long) or nonexistent. (See KevinMac's recent post.) A nice, quiet, smooth engine is worth a lot. (Daysailors' MMV)

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tchowes
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Response Posted - 02/02/2008 : 12:54:59

Dave, I'll be one of those people. Given that I am a converting (not converted) powerboater, the idea of keeping a motor running is not foreign to me. Plus, on the final 3 NM approach to Cuttyhunk Island, the prevailing SW wind is dead ahead with little room to tack back and forth, the motor will keep my batteries a bit more charged even if it is only a 6A alternator.

[/quote]Many (if not most) cuising sailors find that, in order to really get to someplace, they end up motoring a majority of the time. Either the wind is "on the nose" (so tacking would take three times as long) or nonexistent. (See KevinMac's recent post.) A nice, quiet, smooth engine is worth a lot. (Daysailors' MMV)
[/quote]

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Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 02/02/2008 : 13:13:26

Maybe I'll see you at Cuttyhunk--I plan to get there this summer. (You can spot my boat from the picture--it's one-of-a-kind.)

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tchowes
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Response Posted - 02/06/2008 : 14:31:41

Dave,

Excellent, shoot me an email when you're heading out there. Hopefully, I'll be spending more time on the boat in the summer instead of on the forum! Can I assume you'll be on your Eastern 27? The Eastern 27 is on my very short list of powerboats I'd consider upgrading from my 22' whaler. The Eastern 27 is PERFECT size boat and the real deal (compared with the usually fluff boats at the shows)! I'm also a big fan of 246 Rosborough.

While we hope to have the C25 in the water by May 1st (that's being ambitious as I have to get on the rigging SOON), the 22' whaler will likely make some 1/2 day runs to Cuttyhunk first. Like I said, I've got to start small. Crossing Buzzards Bay even on a good day requires preparation.

Back on topic. Will be talking to my local dealer about the 9.9 Tohatsu by the end of the month along with ordering the bracket for a March installation.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dave Bristle
 Maybe I'll see you at Cuttyhunk--I plan to get there this summer. (You can spot my boat from the picture--it's one-of-a-kind.)
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

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