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A handful of VHF questions

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Prospector
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Canada
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Initially Posted - 01/23/2008 : 08:43:46

Since I started the VHF course last night, I discovered that I know less than I thought I knew. For the following scenarios, I'm wondering what you would transmit. These aren't out of a book, and I don't know the answers. Please reply with what your actual transmission would be.

<ul><li>Your crew has been hit by the boom in a crash jybe. They are lying unconscious on the cockpit floor. You can sail singlehanded to the marina in about 20 minutes, but need an ambulance waiting for you there. </li>
<li> Same situation as above, but with immediate life threatning injuries (for fun lets say their corotid artery was slashed open, and you have another crew tending them. </li>
<li>You have lost your rudder and prop but think you can steer with your sails. You would like an escort for safety and hands to meet you at the marina to bring the boat in. </li><li>
</li>
<li> You see another boat in distress in shallow waters, and cannot reach it. You want to verify that they need help, and summon help from another boat with a shallower draft </li></ul>

On most of these I am curious as to what folks would say over the radio, as I said this isn't a test, just an amatuer's curiosity.

"Iris"
1984 FK/SR #4040
http://frosthaus.blogspot.com/

Take a minute to register your boat with the association!!
http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/owner_questionnaire.htm

Edited by - on

redviking
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Response Posted - 01/23/2008 : 09:16:53

Pan pan Pan pan Pan pan! US Coast Guard this is the sailing vessel Lysistrata. Our present location is North 29 degrees, 53 minutes 13 seconds. West 81 degrees, 19 minutes 36 seconds. Our situation is (number one and number three) Over.

For situation number 2 I would consider that a mayDay - same call just using MayDay...

Number four - hit the coasties first and then seek an area vessel for assistance. "Us Coast Guard this is the sailing vessel Lysistrata, Over." They respond. "US Coast Guard we are at lat/long and we are in proximity to a vessel in distress.

Sten

DPO Zephyr - '82 C25, FK, SR
SV Lysistrata - C&C 39 - St. Augustine, FL

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
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Response Posted - 01/23/2008 : 10:46:25

I mostly go along with Sten... except I'd make a Mayday call for #1. When somebody's unconscious, you don't know that it isn't life-threatening, and you need all the help you can get as soon as possible. What if you learned that a blood vessel had burst in his brain, and the 25 extra minutes it took to get your slow boat to a dock might be what killed him?

Another thing to include in an initial distress call is the number of people aboard. If you don't get a chance to call again, the CG should know how many people to account for.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
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Response Posted - 01/23/2008 : 10:51:27

Oh, and they also want to know a visual position, relative to some landmark, navaid, etc. That serves as a check on your lat/lon as well as a clue to other boats in your area.

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Prospector
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Response Posted - 01/23/2008 : 11:10:03

My Question with #4 is whether you should try to raise the vessel first. I haven't given a lot of details, I know. but is it worth the time to verify? If you try to raise them and they don't respond, do you assume the worst and raise the coasties, or do you hail all stations and request someone else investigate first?

I hate to think that someone would end up in trouble because you continued on your way, but then I wouldn't want to raise the alarm, only to find out they were having a BBQ that was particularly smokey, or that the screaming was a domestic issue, etc.

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redviking
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Response Posted - 01/23/2008 : 11:33:03

Hmmmm. More info is generally a good thing. Hail everybody! Raise the alarm! A boat is not a good place to have a domestic issue. Dave is right about changing #1 to a MayDay, but in either event you would get the Coasties attention.

I was in a situation recently wherein a 25 footer with a single hander onboard was drifting into shallower waters than I wanted to venture into. Take care of your own vessel first, let the Coasties know that you have a visual on something and act as a relay if nothing else. In the aforementioned situation, the vessel in distress did not have an anemometer on board and our ability to inform the Coasties of winds speeds was important.

Sten

DPO Zephyr - '82 C25, FK, SR
SV Lysistrata - C&C 39 - St. Augustine, FL

Edited by - on

JimB517
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Response Posted - 01/23/2008 : 11:45:06

Number 3, no way you can steer with your sails. The proper call would be

"Vessel Assist, Vessel Assist, Vessel Assist, this is sailing vessel Indiscipline requesting assistance".

Or Sea Tow, what have you.

Don't leave home without it.

Edited by - on

redviking
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Response Posted - 01/23/2008 : 12:02:09

You could steer with your sails closer to a port and then drop your hook and wait for a tow to a dock. Practice that someday.... But a PanPan is the correct call in that situation. Notify Coasties first of your situation and then let them monitor you while you get SeaTow to assist. The Coasties are always your first line of defense. Period. When April 15th comes around I always hope that my taxes go to them becasue we communicate almost weekly while cruising. I find them to be very helpful and happy that I hail them first. It's their job to be in the know.

Quick quiz: When do you issue a Securite'? And what does the dialogue sound like? Love it when this forum moves to the educational component instead of talking about cetol and varnish.

Sten

DPO Zephyr - '82 C25, FK, SR
SV Lysistrata - C&C 39 - St. Augustine, FL

Edited by - on

Prospector
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Response Posted - 01/23/2008 : 12:11:19

Is "Vessel Assist" the name of towing company, or is it a call I haven't heard before? Is this a lower priority than a pan-pan?

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Prospector
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Response Posted - 01/23/2008 : 12:15:17

A good reference for steering with your sails can be found at http://www.sailtheory.com/mandf.html I believe we could navigate to the breakwall at our club, and get towed to our slip from there. Our lake is quite wide-open.

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Prospector
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Response Posted - 01/23/2008 : 12:20:09

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by redviking
 You could steer with your sails closer to a port and then drop your hook and wait for a tow to a dock. Practice that someday.... But a PanPan is the correct call in that situation. Notify Coasties first of your situation and then let them monitor you while you get SeaTow to assist. The Coasties are always your first line of defense. Period. When April 15th comes around I always hope that my taxes go to them becasue we communicate almost weekly while cruising. I find them to be very helpful and happy that I hail them first. It's their job to be in the know.

Quick quiz: When do you issue a Securite'? And what does the dialogue sound like?
Sten

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I should have read your post before replying.

I believe it goes:

"Securite, securite, securite, alstations, all stations all stations, this is IRis issuing a navigational warning for the waters off Harbot Sound. Please switch to chanel 06 for full transmission"

Switch to channel 06 and wait approx 30 seconds.

Securite, all stations this is Iris there is floating debris at (location) drifting southward at Harbot sound

Seelonce Securite

(Did I get it right? now I have to go check the manual)

Edited by - on

Prospector
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Response Posted - 01/23/2008 : 12:35:37

I think I got it wrong. I should have just ended with "out" the seelonce means "Shut Up" Oh well. Thats why I'm taking the course.

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Nautiduck
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Response Posted - 01/23/2008 : 13:22:51

For the first two situations, in our cruising area, I push the DSC button for 5 seconds and then respond to the Coast Guard to more fully explain the situation. DSC has already provided the boat name, description and exact location to the CG.

Of course if the main VHF is out and we resort to the handheld then the whole DSC thing is moot. Is there an online VHF course?

Edited by - Nautiduck on 01/23/2008 13:48:28

piseas
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Response Posted - 01/23/2008 : 14:00:39

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Prospector
 Is "Vessel Assist" the name of towing company, or is it a call I haven't heard before? Is this a lower priority than a pan-pan?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Vessel Assist is a request(#16) for a towing service like Sea Tow or BoatUS. These are private companies. You pay for the service- like AAA for you auto.

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Prospector
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Response Posted - 01/23/2008 : 14:15:27

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Nautiduck
Is there an online VHF course?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

A google search trawled this up, its only one page, but its something:

http://www.boatsafe.com/nauticalknowhow/radio.htm#channels

The course I'm taking is through the Canadian Power Squadron, Its only four weeks (2 hours a week) at a local high school. I see it as being kind of like first aid training or giving blood. A big return on a little investment. You never know when you may be saving the life of a family member.

Edited by - on

stampeder
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Response Posted - 01/23/2008 : 14:36:24

When I took the VHF course and then actually used the radio, I learned what I consider to be the biggest lesson - know your position.

sounds like a simple thing, but it is harder than it sounds. DSC is great, but as we discussed in another, recent thread, DSC is not everywhere, so despite the fact that you need a DSC radio and a DSC endorsement, you can't rely on that DSC button actually being in touch with the CG.
If you're on a lake, or you're on the ocean - you must be able to quickly and effectively communicate your location and if you have a second person on board, they need to know how to do the same... just in case you're the person laying on the cockpit floor with an impression of a boom on your forehead.
Passing the VHF course is easy, all you need to do is stay awake, read the book once and be able to do a reasonable read-back of the phonetic alphabet.
The Coast guard is generally the first response you will hear when you make a serious situation call on a VHF radio - and their job is to determine whether or not it really is a PAN PAN or a MAY DAY or a commercial tow job or whatever - what they will try to get out of you is two things: your postion and your situation. In addition to knowing where you are - you need to know what Coast Guard station is closest. Generally, all of the stations that can hear you are listening - but if you can be specific, it will get you a better response.

IMHO, if you want to make the most out of your course, learn the phonetic alphabet and learn how to convey your position.
Best thing you can do for your own safety is know landmarks and relative positions. ie: Victoria Coast guard, Victoria Coast Guard, this SV Labarca, we have an injured crewman and a partially disabled boat, we're 3 KM's west of Race Rocks, over.
My experience is that the CG will tell you what they are going to do and what they expect you to do - if this is a MAY DAY, they will declare it and they will take over.
That said, if you know its a MAY DAY, then say it right off. If you're not sure its a MAY DAY, then just call on channel 9 or 16 and state your case.
If you want a real life answer to your amatuer's curiosity, go down to the CG station closest to where you sail, and ask to sit in with them. Its fascinating, entertaining, educational and will answer all your questions in one fun afternoon or evening.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
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Response Posted - 01/23/2008 : 14:48:21

I believe Vessel Assist is the towing company for BoatUS on the West Coast. On the East Coast, we call for TowboatUS. If you have a contract with SeaTow, that's who you would call--you won't want Vessel Assist showing up. If neither (you'd better have a fat wallet aboard), you should probably call for "Any towing company", but you might want to first try for a Good Samaritan... <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">"All stations, all stations, this is the motor vessel Sarge in western Fisher's Island Sound looking for a good Samaritan for a tow into the Mystic River. Over."<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> If you get a reply, take the discussion to a working channel.

Around here, Securite' calls are generally completed on 16--they should be brief and to the point. Generally they are ended with "This is vessel xxxxx, out.) If the CG wants to know more, they'll respond and direct you to another channel (such as 22).

Edited by - on

redviking
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Response Posted - 01/23/2008 : 14:49:42

Prospector you got the idea. If I am in fog I will give a Securite' just to let surrounding vessels know I am there. But I won't switch to 6. Keep it quick and leave it on 16 in my opinion.

Since we are discussing radio protocol, please note that only newbies and powerboaters say "over and out." Radio transmissions on other channels should end like this, "SV Lysistrata switching back to one six. Lysistrata out!"

sten

Edited by - on

Prospector
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Response Posted - 01/23/2008 : 14:59:04

Another common phrase we were told to avoid is "Switch and reply" apparently also CB lingo, and also very common on our lake.

Incidentally, it seems there are different versions of the Phonetic Alphabet regionally.
An example - I bet you didn't learn 'E' as "Echo"

Edited by - on

redviking
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Response Posted - 01/23/2008 : 15:27:45

I did learn E as Echo. Standard radio protocol that is also applicable to SSB and Ham radio work.

"Switch and reply channel six nine" is good radio verbiage for VHF, but please never use "10-4." "Roger" or "Roger that" is way preferred

Sten

DPO Zephyr - '82 C25, FK, SR
SV Lysistrata - C&C 39 - St. Augustine, FL

Edited by - on

Prospector
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Response Posted - 01/23/2008 : 15:35:26

Interesting - many folks from the US will use "Eagle" for 'e'

I wonder if the US uses a different language than Canadian. "Roger" is preferred here (vis a vis the Radio Operator's Certificate manual).

An example of correct channel switching, as we were taught it is at http://boating.ncf.ca/vhfcall.html

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Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
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Response Posted - 01/23/2008 : 15:41:45

Prospector's short course isn't bad, except I didn't see anything on Mayday vs. Pan-pan (as discussed here). Also, I tend to think your registration number is gobbledigook until the CG asks for it--it has no meaning to other boaters and delays the communication of what's important. However, it's a good thing to memorize your number and boat name in the phonetic form--even write them down--so you can respond quickly when asked.

Also, in this area, radio checks should be requested on 9, not 16. (If you use 16, you will find out your radio is working when you get scolded by a commercial captain.) I usually use my Tri-watch to monitor 9, 13, and 16 whenever I'm not involved in a call.

Edited by - on

redviking
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Response Posted - 01/23/2008 : 15:48:46

Coasties are weird about radio checks on 16. Some places it's OK and they'll even give you the check. In New England they will scold you for using 16 and tell you that radio checks are to be made on 9. I always wait for someone to request a radio check and then I get one for free.

BTW - always give your position when requesting or responding to a radio check. This gives both operators information regarding the strength of their signal.

Sten

DPO Zephyr - '82 C25, FK, SR
SV Lysistrata - C&C 39 - St. Augustine, FL

Edited by - on

JimB517
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Response Posted - 01/23/2008 : 16:16:48

Remember, you make a hailing call on 16. For example, "Classical Cat, Classical Cat, Classical Cat this is Indiscipline on one six." Classical Cat will reply "This is Classical Cat go ahead." I will then say "Classical Cat meet me on 68 and up".

Remember, you can only talk on 68, 69, 71 and 72. 68 and up means go to 68, if it is busy, 69, thrn try 71 or 72.

When the conversation is over I say "Indiscipline out standing by on one six".

The reason you say the channel you are on is for people with scanners.

Round here 72 is a fishing channel. 71 is the race committees. Big races use 69, you are required to monitor 69 all day. Your San Diego Mission Bay Fleet 7 channel is 71. We usually just hang around 71 all day, don't actually monitor 16.

Also, round here, Catalina Island Harbor Master monitors VHF 9 for calls for moorings, etc. VHF 9 is an alternate hailing channel.

VHF 13 is for opening bridges and for locking through (1 watt channel).

I've never heard anyone but USCG give a SECURITE call. I believe when the US Navy or big Cruise ships are leaving the harbor they do a Pan Pan call.

USCG always takes a called to 21 for more information and for their information broadcasts.

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Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
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Response Posted - 01/23/2008 : 17:10:59

I hate to second-guess a licensed captain, but...
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by JimB517
 Remember, you make a hailing call on 16...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Not here. 16 is for emergencies, and 9 is for routine hailing.
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I've never heard anyone but USCG give a SECURITE call. I believe when the US Navy or big Cruise ships are leaving the harbor they do a Pan Pan call.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Hmmmmm... I dunno about that... They should make a Securite' call broadcasting their intentions and needs. If they want to address a particular vessel about it, they should call him on 13. (In a harbor, always monitor 13 and 16.) Pan-pan is a request for assistance.
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">We usually just hang around 71 all day, don't actually monitor 16.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">That'd be against the law. If your radio is on and you're not involved in a call, you're supposed to monitor 16. VHF is first and foremost for emergencies, and all boaters are expected to be ready to assist if needed. (But who's gonna know?)
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">USCG always takes a called to 21 for more information and for their information broadcasts.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Here, 22A is the first option, and 21 is used if 22A is already in use.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 01/23/2008 17:13:57

Sloop Smitten
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Response Posted - 01/23/2008 : 18:03:49

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Remember, you make a hailing call on 16...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Not here. 16 is for emergencies, and 9 is for routine hailing.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

That may be how the book is written but it sure isn't practiced here on the west coast. As a matter of fact the local Coast Guard Auxiliary comes on Channel 16 every day telling sailors they are taking radio checks on Channel 9. Hardly an emergency transmission. Standard practice here is to hail on Channel 16 and move to another channel, as Jim stated. By the way if your radio has no scan capabilities, and you keep it tuned to Channel 16, how does anyone reach you in a non-emergency situation? Also I believe their are limitations to the rule to have your radio listening to Channel 16. I don't remember what they are though.
I always monitor 16. It keeps those naval destroyers from firing warning shots over your bow when you don't respond to their hail.

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