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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 250 Specific Forum

need new genoa

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coldducks
Captain

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USA
342 Posts

Initially Posted - 01/23/2008 : 07:37:36

need to replace our 135 genoa. mostly day sailolrs. thoughts and advice on where to look.

COLDDUCKS
FANTASY #409 C250WK

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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3444 Posts

Response Posted - 01/23/2008 : 08:32:02

I just ordered a 135% from National Sail. They're Rolly Tasker sails. Price drove my decision along with recommendations from others on this forum.

http://www.nationalsail.com/

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OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 01/23/2008 : 19:00:39

I know I may get criticism on this but...does anyone know what these Rolly Taskers sails are made of...Mfr of the sail cloth and the grade of matl ? Apparently, many are very pleased with their sails and I checked the National Sail website and no doubt the prices are super ! So...I guess that's it --go with the flow and buy them.

I bought sails recently from Quantum. They cost a good deal more and ...well I have not installed them and I am not even going to recommend them but the point I guess that i am making is that a good deal of your purchase is ...buying sail cloth.

In general, my perception from reading about racing sails, cruising sails, laminates, Dacron, etc is that Dacron sails structurally last...well for some of us seems like forever. Performanceiwise dacron is known to stretch and so for cruising sails it seems that they start stretching in the first year and well they remain very good for years to come but they stretch a lot sooner than the racing laminate sails...so I guess all of us that buy Dacron just figure okay they stretch in first few years but they are reasonable and structurally I'm set for many, many years to come. But that is not the full Dacron story. There are different grades of Dacron. Most of the Dacron sails are made by only a few lofts and one of the largest, if not the largest is Challenge. Challenge sells Dacron in 4 grades (Performance, High Modulus, High Aspect & Marblehead). The story is that the premium grades of Dacron (High Aspect and Marblehead) do not stretch as much as the lower grades of Dacron and when the sailmaker combines premium stitching that also does not stretch that much (and is only used with the premium sail-cloth grades), you have a sail that will last for many years longer performance-wise even if made of Dacron. There are many sailmakers that sell their Dacron cruising sails out of the lower two grades of Challenge Dacron because...well because they are mainly used for cruising. But a cruising sailor is actually a more complex person that a racing sailor. A cruising sailor does not necessarily want to settle for a sail that lose it's performance after just say 3 years or so. That's why certain sailmakers indicate the sail cloth that they prefer selling the Dacron cruising in. Two that come to mind are Mack sails and Quantum - They primarily sell Dacron Cruising sails out of Challenge High Aspect Matl. Anyway, when you check out a sailmaker and their website does not give the details of the sail cloth used, you should at least check out a few more and see what others have to say about their cloth or better yet...call them and have your estimate state what cloth and weight of the matl. The weight of the matl does not tell the whole story because the premium grades of Dacron have a tighter weave and can weigh less with less stretch.

How do you compare stretch of the different grades ? Go to the Challenge Website ! They have all the graphs and comparisons of ther grade cloth and what stretch occurs based on force applied. At the higher forces, there is a significant difference between the grades. Then check out the sailmaker and what sail cloth he is then using. Usually, you do not get something for nothing. There is a good chance if the cost of the sail is less than other sailmakers, then the cloth used 9even if the weight is heavier) may be a lower grade of cloth...because it cost less to buy that cloth.

Many just want to buy the sails and that's that. I don't blame most people for not checking the cloth out. Afterall...it's probably boring. Better to go by recommendations. if others are happy with the sails, then chances are you will be as well.

But anyone wanting to check out the finer details, recommend you read the info on the Mack sails website. It is very well written.

Here is the link :
http://www.macksails.com/sailclth.htm

Edited by - OLarryR on 01/23/2008 19:04:11

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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3444 Posts

Response Posted - 01/23/2008 : 21:32:46

You're right Larry, of course. But, there's due diligence and then there's <i>due diligence</i>!

When making any purchase it's important to do as much research as one needs to do in order to satisfy whatever criteria one places on the use of one's checkbook. For me, I'd only get confused by all the engineering details of cloth construction. In the end, I'd still have to take someone else's word that High Modulus cloth was better or worse than Marblehead cloth.

Here's an admittedly biased, market driven blurb from the Rolly Tasker website:

"World-renowned Australian sail maker Rolly Tasker has in excess of 55 years of experience in the sailing industry. Rolly is one of the worlds leading sail makers and boat racers, and an important name in sailing. The large Phuket sail loft offers a skilled labour force and a convenient central location allowing easy international delivery of Rolly Tasker sails."

What that tells me, and probably all I need to know, is that they've been doing this for a long time. Companies don't stay in business for 55 years if their product doesn't meet the demands of their consumers.

The fact that the cost of the sail is less than others could as easily be due to the location of the loft rather than the quality of the fabric. I'm guessing that the prevailing wage for a sailmaker in Phuket, Thailand may be a little less than in Maryland or Ohio. BTW, they use Challenger sailcloth although which one wasn't specified.

I also drive a Ford, not a Mercedes; have a Timex, not a Rolex; and, I usually get where I need to be comfortably, safely and on time.

Edited by - John Russell on 01/23/2008 21:41:52

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3466 Posts

Response Posted - 01/23/2008 : 22:11:17

Many of the cruising sails from the major lofts are made overseas probably for same reason you mentioned. For example, Quantum makes their cruising sails in Capetown, South Africa.

I agree with your comments regarding different cars as an example similar to... different sails. Though.....the difference in cars is noticeable right away...not so obvious with sails and probably not all that big a deal anyway. To tell you the truth, the biggest example is the difference between buying a new versus used boat. I have had new boats in the past. This time, I went with one that was well over 15 years old but it sails fine, has plenty on the forum that recommend it, no one can fault buying a used boat...even though...a new one is really , really nice and envious of those that were able to go that route.

For whatever reason, I earlier felt the urge to express some comments ...not so much because of this specific posting thread but...just sharing info on a subject that comes up often.

Hey you know...just about a month ago and in all sailing years eons in the past, rope was just rope to me. If I needed a new line, I just picked one off the rack at the boat store - what "looked" good.. Not sure what got me going on looking into the rope details...probably some recent discussion on the forum but realizing my lines are probably original along with the sails, figured I would for starters buy a new sheet(s) for my new 150 Genoa. All of a sudden I was not only looking into past postings on line recommendations but then checking the web for more details and the mfrs published info as well. Then I got into a whole thing on cost versus line stretch versus stiffness of the line on what was the best for headsail sheets.

My imperfection is that I sometimes (correction maybe I should say often) get more interest into researching some things than actually using the darn thing once I wind up purchasing it.

Latest thing right now....is getting a suitable 4" cordless polisher/buffer. The main issue with that...is it direct drive or does the pad stop when pressure applied while motor keeps spinning.

My thought is that most sailmakers that have been recommended by others on this Forum probably all offer sails that are going to be in most cases superior to the stock sails that came with the boat. Besides, there are so many that have really old original sails and still have enjoyed sailing with them. That includes me. Now having new sails is going to be such a treat for many years to come.

Edited by - OLarryR on 01/23/2008 22:26:54

coldducks
Captain

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342 Posts

Response Posted - 01/24/2008 : 07:28:13

thank you for your responses. has anyone bought sails directly from catalina yachts? i tried catalina direct but they dont seem to have sails for the 25 or 250.

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Sloop Smitten
Master Marine Consultant

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1181 Posts

Response Posted - 01/24/2008 : 11:29:46

Huh?

http://www.catalinadirect.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display& category_id=116

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piseas
Former Treasurer

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USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 01/24/2008 : 16:27:59

Joe, I pulled up that site. They show sails for c25 but dont mention c250. ????
Steve A

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Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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3704 Posts

Response Posted - 01/24/2008 : 19:04:49

I've looked at the CD site too and they don't carry 250 sails. Not enough of a market yet since most 250s are relatively new. I did buy sails for my C22 from CD and was very happy. Ullman made them.

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