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Splicing nut...

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ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Initially Posted - 01/31/2008 : 09:16:01

We may have kicked this one around before... or maybe not. Simple concept... watch the basic assembly video.

http://splicingnut.com/

WOTAM - '77 Catalina 25 SK/SR Sail Number 158

Edited by - on

cat1951
Admiral

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USA
636 Posts

Response Posted - 01/31/2008 : 10:17:58

Well this is as good a time as any to revisit this. I am about to redo my jib halyard that has become worn on the furler foil. (My fault, didn't pull the jib up far enough.) The guy at WM said it will be a b**ch to redo the eye with an older braided halyard, but I do have a fids kit. If this would work, I would be willing, but am wondering about the strength.

Edited by - on

piseas
Former Treasurer

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USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 01/31/2008 : 12:21:53

It seems very easy. Wonder if anyone has use them?
Steve A

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 01/31/2008 : 14:28:58

My concern would be that it is a solid object. Nothihg worse than going forward to tame a problem genny in the wind and having something hard flying around. Why not just use a knot?

Edited by - on

cat1951
Admiral

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USA
636 Posts

Response Posted - 01/31/2008 : 14:44:40

Just trying to streamline everything close to the masthead. I need to raise the roller on the furler closer to the top since I have a problem with the halyard catching on the furler foil. I will be adding a pendant to the tack and I want to keep the halyard eye small and compact. Just don't want the knot catching on the foil, the furler roller, or the masthead.

I did get a response on the Catalina Owners website from someone that has had them since last winter. He says they work great and according to the splicing nut website, they are reliable and quick.

Edited by - cat1951 on 01/31/2008 14:47:01

Sloop Smitten
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1181 Posts

Response Posted - 01/31/2008 : 15:00:39

Some other opinions:

http://www.sailboatowners.com/forums/pviewall.tpl?& fno=441& uid=F& sku=2008031105950.57

Edited by - on

cat1951
Admiral

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USA
636 Posts

Response Posted - 01/31/2008 : 15:21:25

Thanks Joe, I am newsailor06 on that site and that's my C25 in my Avatar.

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 01/31/2008 : 15:58:17

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Nautiduck
 My concern would be that it is a solid object. Nothihg worse than going forward to tame a problem genny in the wind and having something hard flying around. Why not just use a knot?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I'm new to all this but to me that sounds like a good spot for an alpine butterfly knot. A quick twist and a tug and its there. Attach with a small carabiner. Good for a coupla thousand pounds tension.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpine_butterfly_knot

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 01/31/2008 : 16:01:37

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by cat1951
 Just trying to streamline everything close to the masthead. I need to raise the roller on the furler closer to the top since I have a problem with the halyard catching on the furler foil. I will be adding a pendant to the tack and I want to keep the halyard eye small and compact. Just don't want the knot catching on the foil, the furler roller, or the masthead.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I don't understand what's catching on what... Does your halyard not attach to the top of the swivel? Do you have a lead block on the mast, a little down from the masthead, to run the halyard through? On most systems it's important to keep the halyard at an angle away from the forestay in order to stabilize the swivel and keep the halyard from wrapping around the stay, damaging the stay. Correspondingly, the swivel has to be down a little from the masthead so the halyard can go through that block.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 01/31/2008 16:05:44

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 01/31/2008 : 16:28:55

Back to the nut... The site says you've gotta be able to screw in a lightbulb... Do they mean alone?

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 01/31/2008 16:30:45

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 01/31/2008 : 16:39:10

Great now we're gonna go off on the how many engineers does it take to screw in a lightbulb jokes...

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 01/31/2008 : 17:09:45

Prospector,
Thanks for the new knot! I climbed for years and never heard of this one. I love useful knots.

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 01/31/2008 : 17:51:14

No problem.

I lust realized that wiki ties it different than I do. This is how I tie it:
http://www.abc-of-rockclimbing.com/climbing-knots/alpine-butterfly.asp

Edited by - Prospector on 01/31/2008 17:57:40

stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Response Posted - 01/31/2008 : 19:40:21

How many Catalina 25/250/capri owners does it take to screw a splicing nut together?
Only one, but 10 more catalina owners will gather round while he does it so they can debate tiller vs wheel and wing vs fin vs swing keel, porta-potty vs marine head.

Edited by - on

stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Response Posted - 01/31/2008 : 19:44:01

Nice knot Prospector.

If I was going to use a knot at the end of a line and wanted to keep it small, I'd use a Cow Hitch - then I'd whip the working end to the standing part or I'd use rigging tape to ensure that it doesn't spill.
This is probably the smallest knot and the one that would hurt the least if it connected with your head bone in a gale.

Edited by - stampeder on 01/31/2008 19:44:40

Ericson33
Admiral

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USA
892 Posts

Response Posted - 01/31/2008 : 20:55:11

Mike - Replace the halyard with a splice and have a Winchard shackle attached to the end. I never had any problems with the attachment to the harken swivle, the sail may be cut wrong (too long at the luff) check this first and have rodger fix it if it's wrong. The splicing nut in my eyes should never be used in this situation, there is way too much load on that halyard, and if the wind pipes up ( and it will at grand lake) the splicing nut will be the weakest link on the rig. I couldn't amagine taking out the winch and putting more luff tension on that thing, I would not trust it. Now if you are wanting to streamline the genoa sheets you could use it there, but again why? Take the sail in and have west marine, or rodger splice you on a sheet that is spliced correctly onto the sail.

Sometimes it pays to do it the right way.

Edited by - on

Ericson33
Admiral

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USA
892 Posts

Response Posted - 01/31/2008 : 21:04:43

On another note: (the what if question) splice vs knot.
I tie on all of my sheets to the sails, even the spinnaker, the main reason for this is the what if factor. I have been on the coarse going hard, and the boat broaches, sheets are let out and we resume coarse. But there is always the chance of getting pinned (1) I carry a sharp knife and cut the sheet, or (2) untie the knot. Now I know that there are a ton of knots out there, but the best in my book is the bowline. It is somewhat easy to untie when the sheet is loaded up, and with practice you can do it quick. Safty shoud be the first thing to think about on the boat, not how to make it look good.

Sorry for the rants

Edited by - on

DaveR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2015 Posts

Response Posted - 02/01/2008 : 07:53:00

Great Thread! I love the [url="http://www.iland.net/~jbritton/bowline.htm"]Bowline[/url] and the [url="http://www.animatedknots.com/alpinebutterfly/index.php"]Alpine Butterfly[/url]. The [url="http://www.iwillknot.com/cow_hitch/"]Cow Hitch[/url] looks pretty good but I think I'd want to sort of double it up, looks like it could shake loose.
Check out [url="http://www.animatedknots.com/indexboating.php?LogoImage=LogoGrog.jpg&Website=www.animatedknots.com"]this site[/url] I came across while researching the knots mentioned on this tread

Edited by - on

cat1951
Admiral

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USA
636 Posts

Response Posted - 02/01/2008 : 08:11:36

C.S. and all. This is why we have sites like this. I wanted input, and I guess I got it. What has happened is that Capri25 sold me the furler the year before last. I didn't get it on until late in the season that year because we had to take down the mast to do the install. Then this year, the Admiral and I built a new house closer to Grand Lake. (We downsized) So our sailing trips were only 2. I noticed that we had problems with a halyard wrap because the jib luff was not all the way to the top of the foil.

As Capri25 indicates, it should work very well if the head of the jib is in the right place. In the two times we were out, the halyard (not the sheets) became a little worn with the rubbing. Not a big problem, but one that I want to fix. I do not want to take the halyard down and to WM or another place to have an eye spliced in it because I want to leave the halyard in place.

My plan is to cut back the halyard removing the eye and the worn spot. Then it is an open plan. One option is to splice in another eye and I have a new fid kit and instructions to do just that. The only concern I have is that the guy at WM said that an older braided line does not stretch as much when using the fid and it might be pretty difficult to get the eye in place.

Second, I could simply use a bowline, but have read about them loosening over time. In addition, I am not the best at making knots.. still new at this gig. And the area at the masthead is small and I want to make sure I have the room to pull the furler roller up high enough to get the angle to the halyard so it doesn't wrap any more.

Thirdly, I do not have a lead block near the masthead and do not want to add one if I don't have to.

And lastly, the luff length on the jib is probably ok, but I do need a pendant. Either at the top or the bottom, and with it being my choice because the jib is coming down anyway, I am planning to add the pendant to the bottom so I have more visibility under the jib and I don't knock fellow sailors off the bow when we tack. I know...for those that race, it is much more efficient to have the pendant at the top, but I don't race, and don't plan to. And if if ever do, I will need new sails anyway.

The nuts looked like a great idea and I wanted input from someone that has used them. I have two so far...one that loves them and one that says the UV Rays make them decay over time. That is my concern as well. I don't want the sail coming down when under way, and the halyard retreating through the masthead sheaves at the same time.

Finally, it will be either a bowline, an alpine butterfly knot, or it just might be a new eye spliced in using the fid kit. The line is fairly new and I have plenty of length to spare. So if I mess it up the first time, I can always make another.

That's my story and I am sticking to it.

BTW: Just looked at the alpine butterfly knot. WOW... I grew up in Colorado and learned it when I went through the Exum School of Mountaineering in Grand Teton National Park. I can't remember what it was called, but I know the knot.

Edited by - cat1951 on 02/01/2008 08:53:14

kaferhaus
1st Mate

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40 Posts

Response Posted - 02/01/2008 : 08:41:13

tape it up with some good "friction" tape and the UV/chaffing problem is gone.

ANYTHING made out of plastic will rot with long term UV exposure.

I believe these are made in China so the long term durability would be suspect in any event (just my experience with anything made in China)

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 02/01/2008 : 09:55:29

Mike,
The WM advice is correct, an older line won't stretch as easily as a new line making the splicing procedure even more difficult than it is. I don't want to try to dissuade you from trying to do the splice, it's a good thing to learn how to do (I still have to read the instructions every time I do one and don't always succeed, three part laid splices are way easier to do). I haven't read this thread as thoroughly as I might have, is there a reason you can't replace the halyard using new line?

I've read good reviews of the splicing nut and have tried to find them around here, but the one spot that supposedly carried them only had them "at their other store" (they didn't), and without seeing & touching them I'm reluctant to order some online. I'd be hesitant in using them for the first time on a halyard myself, but perhaps you could test them first? Maybe make up a dropping rig where you can tie off a test line of the same size as your halyard to say the second story of your house and drop a weight attached to the line to see if you can jerk the splicing nut apart. Even a straight line pull tied off to a tow ball on your vehicle to see if you can pull it apart (obvious safety considerations here) may give you the information you need. Maybe roll your vehicle down a slight incline tied off to something stout like a large concrete block or stump. Bear in mind that you can generate enormous forces quickly in this scenario, so I'd start off with tiny distances, like five feet of rolling before it snubbed up.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 02/01/2008 : 11:08:50

"...enormous forces..." ...and some enormous speeds and impacts when the thing lets go--perhaps putting a nice dent in your tailgate or breaking the window...

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cat1951
Admiral

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USA
636 Posts

Response Posted - 02/01/2008 : 13:42:54

Well, I am going to try to splice in a new eye with the fid kit. I have some instructions that also show how to taper the line in the bitter end. That makes it easier to draw the fid and the line back through the good line. Like I said, I have plenty to spare. I could put new line in, and I just may end up doing that, but I would like to try to keep the existing halyard that I have. There are many years left in it.

If I can not re-splice in a new eye with the fid, then I will probably go with the Alpine Butterfly since I already know how to tie it. And I have used it in my climbing and trust it completely.

I did order a couple of the 5/16" splicing nuts and I may test one of them. Probably not on the halyard, but on something so I can see how it performs over a long time.

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Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 02/01/2008 : 13:55:03

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by delliottg
 Mike,
The WM advice is correct, an older line won't stretch as easily as a new line making the splicing procedure even more difficult than it is. I don't want to try to dissuade you from trying to do the splice, it's a good thing to learn how to do (I still have to read the instructions every time I do one and don't always succeed, three part laid splices are way easier to do). I haven't read this thread as thoroughly as I might have, is there a reason you can't replace the halyard using new line?

I've read good reviews of the splicing nut and have tried to find them around here, but the one spot that supposedly carried them only had them "at their other store" (they didn't), and without seeing & touching them I'm reluctant to order some online. I'd be hesitant in using them for the first time on a halyard myself, but perhaps you could test them first? Maybe make up a dropping rig where you can tie off a test line of the same size as your halyard to say the second story of your house and drop a weight attached to the line to see if you can jerk the splicing nut apart. Even a straight line pull tied off to a tow ball on your vehicle to see if you can pull it apart (obvious safety considerations here) may give you the information you need. Maybe roll your vehicle down a slight incline tied off to something stout like a large concrete block or stump. Bear in mind that you can generate enormous forces quickly in this scenario, so I'd start off with tiny distances, like five feet of rolling before it snubbed up.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

This is exactly how a project of mine went from pulling a vine out of the garden to replacing the rear window in a pontiac Montana. I'd give details, but you already know enough...

Edited by - on

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