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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Bilge Pump

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tflick
Deckhand

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Canada
10 Posts

Initially Posted - 02/17/2008 : 20:28:30

I have never needed to use my bilge pump (in an emergency) so I am not sure if it works or not. I have tried using the pump but there doesn't seem to be much resistance when moving the handle up and down. How can I be sure the pump works before it's too late? Is there a way that I can test the pump?

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Chris Z
Captain

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452 Posts

Response Posted - 02/17/2008 : 20:53:57

Yep, Put a small bucket of water down in the bilge and stick the end of the hose inside. I did this after replacing the hose. I also did this with my automatic bilge pump.

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Ed Cassidy
Captain

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USA
365 Posts

Response Posted - 02/17/2008 : 21:20:47

My 79 does not have a manual or electric bilge pump. If I were to add electric, where should the pickup or pickups be? Would the manual pump be the same? It seems like the floor is quite compartmentalized.

Thanks,
Ed

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Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 02/17/2008 : 22:31:23

On my 82 there are no limber holes, so it doesn't matter where the pickup is located. Bilge water will only move past the ribs by heeling, splashing, or flowing over the top. It takes more than a gallon to spread. I have sponged it out several times after heavy rain - hence my reference to re-bedding my chain plates on another thread. I no longer have the problem.

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sweetcraft
Admiral

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USA
816 Posts

Response Posted - 02/17/2008 : 22:41:25

My 79 didn't either so I installed the pump and float switch next to the keel cable area on a thin board which I siliconed to the hull. It was close to the electical and I used a three way control for bilge pumps from WM. It is hooked up directly to the power supply and has it's own fuse and a light which goes on only when the pump should be on. The pump can be tested or run by the switch in the run position and I can still hear it when I test it. My own test of the float switch is at the start of the season with a tooth pick the float can be lifted and it better go on, it takes at least an inch or more to get the float switch and pump to work. I put the discharge up high on the transom so it might not take on water and I could see it if it was pumping. A horn could be wired into the light on the switch and that could alert someone the pump was working.(if you were asleep or for someone on the dock of course we all see boats with pump discharges and hope it's not toxic)

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tbosch
Navigator

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163 Posts

Response Posted - 02/18/2008 : 10:39:22

Related question... On my 1980 Catalina 25 the PO installed an electric bilge pump and stuck it to the end of the manual bilge pump hose. The manual pump doesn't seem to work and I'm wondering if it can with the electric pump installed the way it is.

When the electric pump is running some water oozes out of the manual pump housing into the cockpit. The vast majority is expelled out the transom, as desired.

So, should the electric bilge have it's own piping? Or is this an ok setup?

Thanks,
Todd,
1980 C25 SR/FK
Sailing out of Ashland, WI

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tchowes
1st Mate

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USA
36 Posts

Response Posted - 02/18/2008 : 10:53:54

Related, what do people recommend for capacity on an electric bilge pump for the C25?

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delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 02/18/2008 : 11:57:05

Todd,
On our 250 we (currently) only have a manual bilge pump. We tested it exactly as specified in this thread, a bucket of water into the bilge and I watched the pickup while Rita pumped & watched the outflow. We are able to pump down to about 1/2" or so before the pickup is sucking air.

Having your electric pump plumbed into your manual pump's intake is a bad idea. The manual pump probably can't prime itself because it's trying to suck through the impeller of the electric pump so it effectively can't reach the water because the impeller's in the way. When the electric pump's running, it's probably overloading the seal in the diaphragm of the manual pump causing the small leak you're seeing. Or the diaphragm might have a tear in it in which case it wouldn't be able to prime itself either (presuming it was not restricted by the electic pump.

I don't know the insides of a C25, but my eventual plan is to route the electric pump's outflow to the drain in either the sink in the head or galley depending on which is easier to get to. I know at least on of the C250 guys ran his all the way back to exit right next to the manual bilge pump's outlet.

If you search the forum, you'll find a number of articles relating to this.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 02/18/2008 : 12:33:38

Todd: In addition to David's diagnosis, I'll suggest that your manual pump diaphram is torn--likely due to water freezing in it. That will prevent it from picking up from the bilge. You can pick up a replacement kit at most chandleries... Do you run antifreeze through the pumps when putting her to bed for the winter? I poured a couple of gallons into the bilge and ran it through the manual pump (all I had) to insure antifreeze and not water was in the pump.

I've heard of people successfully having both types of pumps on a single line, but that will almost certainly reduce the efficiency of both, and means you don't have the capacity of two pumps in the event of a serious leak.

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OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3468 Posts

Response Posted - 02/18/2008 : 16:43:18

I have tested my manual bilge pump and it works. But IO have been thinking of replacing it or the internals (if available) because the diaphragm is so old that just when you will need it, it probably will not hold up due to the rubber being so old.

The fact that you have a leak in your rubber diaphragm when using the electric pump is an indication that your rubber diaphragm is shot. So...first order of business is replacing the rubber diaphragm.

Perhaps the electric bilge pump in the same line may effect the manual pump efficiency but I do not believe it will effect it that much. Also, I do not believe your electric bilge pump damaged the rubber diaphragm in your manual pump...in fact, I can say that it is pretty much impossible for it to have done so. I installed an underground sprinkler system for my lawn many years ago. The system uses diaphragm valves and the water pressure is close to 90psi. Those valves have lasted for many years and they are subjected to so much more pressure than your electric biulge pump produces...which is probably miniscule in comparison. The rubber diaphragms are pretty robust and the only time they are really abused is when pumping the handle - that stretches the rubber diaphragm. Given our boats are old, the rubber diaphragms have deteriorated or have become brittle and so it is questionable just how long some will continue to last especially hwen the day comes when you really need to pump with it.

I would replace the rubber diaphragm. Then recheck operation of the electric bilge pump and then the manual pump. If each seems to be pumping fine...then you are done..except... the only thing I would be concerned regarding the potential reduced efficiency of the manual pump because the electric one is that I would think the electric pump has a smaller diameter discharge. So...if the hose has been reduced at it's end to accomodate hooking up the electric pump...then that is where the reduced efficiency will show up....the manual bilge pump will not be sucking the water thru a full sized hose. Check and see how that arrangement is...perhaps the electric bilge pump has a smaller diameter tube shoved up the hose...up to a certain point closer to the manual pump....depending on the configuration...that may be okay. Otherwise, either disconnect the electric bilge pump or have a separate independent hose for it discharging overboard.

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GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4304 Posts

Response Posted - 02/18/2008 : 20:14:09

What about running a separate line to a point past the manual pump and then putting a "Y" in the discharge hose for the manual pump so you can attach the electric pump's discharge hose. Saves having to drill another hole through the transom and shouldn't affect the pumping capacity of either pump.

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Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 02/18/2008 : 22:18:52

It also means that you could potentially pump from one pump through the other and back into the bilge. Two flap valves could solve that, but your maximum flow with both pumps operating would still be limited by the diameter of the single output. Run two outflows.

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farrison
Navigator

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USA
166 Posts

Response Posted - 02/19/2008 : 14:02:59

I have a manual pump in the cockpit wall that pulls from a hose in the bilge. I hooked up my electric pump to the end of that same hose. I can pump water from either pump out through the single outlet in the hull without problems. The electric pump will push water through the valves in the manual pump just fine, and the manual pump will suck it through the electric also. But my boat is dry enough that I rarely use either one.

Paul

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Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 02/26/2008 : 22:25:59

Here are a couple of old threads on bilge pumps which might (or might not) shed some light on some of the questions raised by this thread.

"[url="http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=1888"]Electric bilge pump[/url]"

"[url="http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=10654"]Water in Hull[/url]"

-- Leon S

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