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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

worn out sails?

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Don Brooks
Deckhand

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24 Posts

Initially Posted - 02/26/2008 : 08:54:13

I talked with Gary from Ullman Ventura yesterday and ordered a 135 furling head sail, with a loose foot main. My old 155 has had several repairs to it, along with a new rip. I'm pretty sure both sails are the original. I've read on the forum testimonials to better performance, point ability, etc. with new sails so this wasn't a difficult decision.
My question is how do you really know when it's time to bit the bullet and lay the money down. For those of you who have had to buy sails when did you know it was time?

Don Brooks
Leilla Dee # 1807
Columbia City OR

Edited by - on

Joel37027
Deckhand

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USA
21 Posts

Response Posted - 02/26/2008 : 08:59:45

If you don"t mind - how much is it going to cost?

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 02/26/2008 : 09:14:28

The only sail I ever gave up on was the original North racing mainsail on my C25. It was 23 years old, had been raced hard, and ripped at a batten pocket, which would have required rebuilding the batten pocket. I decided that it would have cost more than it was worth to repair it, so I replaced it.

At about the same time, the leech line pocket ripped out of my 23 year old North racing 155, but I repaired it myself, and then had a sailmaker restitch the entire sail (my sewing machine wasn't powerful enough). I bought a new 155, but rarely used it. The old North genoa still had reasonably good shape, and was still a better, faster sail in all but the stronger winds.

I just bought a new main and genoa for my present boat, but kept the old ones, and, if I take the boat on a long distance cruise, will undoubtedly use the old ones, to save wear and tear on the new sails.

Edited by - Steve Milby on 02/26/2008 09:19:29

stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Response Posted - 02/26/2008 : 10:46:37

I had my main repaired by North Sails. They did a good job of repairing batten pockets and adding a leech line. Well worth the $130. This is most likely the original 1981 Main sail. It looks good now, has good shape.

I have sent my 150 Genoa to the same place for foot and leech line repairs.

I tore the better of my two 110 jibs last fall. Both of them are of light material and both are falling apart. So I ordered a 110 jib with help from this forum, from Lee Sails.

How did I know when? I asked other sailors, I asked here, and it seemed obvious that the Main could be repaired and that the jibs could not be. I think the 150 can be fixed up because it is a light wind sail.

Edited by - on

andy
Navigator

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USA
228 Posts

Response Posted - 02/26/2008 : 10:48:25

Don
That's a great question given the fact that we all want different levels of performance out of our boats depending on what we like to do with them.

I like performance so I start looking to replace a sail when 1). it's lost its shape (like an airfoil) 2)It starts to fall apart or is more expensive to repair it than it's worth.

Dacron sails do stretch and get "baggy" when they get old and can no longer hold an airfoil shape or the camber increases to the point where they create too much drag (a sail like that will sometimes work well in real light air though)...that's when I retire 'em. I still keep a worn sail to cruise and to save wear and tear on a fresher performance sail I'd use for racing. Mylar headsails will usually hold they're shape... they just disintegrate when they die.

C25's are headsail driven so that's the one to be most concerned about. A full battened main obviously will hold its shape (though not optimally) even if it's worn.

That's what I do... everybody has different ideas that are all valid.

I'd like to be able to by a new set of North 3DL's every year but really, on a C25? kinda silly. Besides, I'm poor.

cheers,

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3468 Posts

Response Posted - 02/26/2008 : 11:43:54

I think the answer has a lot to do with if you have the dollars to fund buying new sails.

Performance-wise, the stock sails lost it many years ago. Structurally, they last for ...10, 11...and more years. If you are into racing...whether that is organized racing or when there is just another boat out there and you perceive you cannot head close to the wind as well as you should because of the sails being blown out then that may be one indication. Having subsequent rips and repairs....well then it is not even holding up structurally, so that is also another strong indication supporting replacement.

When guests come aboard including the spouse and enjoy the sailing and see nothing wrong with the sails, however, you see threads hanging, see the blown out appearance and...you have the dollars to support replacement....then that is also an indication to replace them.

The above is really my thoughts regarding sails that are already 15+ years old. In my case, the sails were...18+ yrs old (Cat 1989) ? At some point you have to decide is it really worth fixing/renovating old matl versus getting spanking new sails. If they are older than say 15 yrs old, I do not see getting them renovated...except perhaps to keep as your extra set when the new sails are being cleaned or having something done to them. Others may disagree from personal experience.

Edited by - OLarryR on 02/26/2008 11:49:25

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 02/26/2008 : 11:50:55

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by andy
 ...I'd like to be able to by a new set of North 3DL's every year but really, on a C25? kinda silly. Besides, I'm poor.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Some one-design fleets around here limit boats to one new sail per year, or similar restrictions, so no families go hungry in favor of new suits of sails. I also recall that J-24 and Sonar international class rules say dacron only (plus nylon chute) to prevent StarWars-style arms races. To win in those fleets, you have to know how to sail!

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Don Brooks
Deckhand

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24 Posts

Response Posted - 02/26/2008 : 11:55:52

Joel I don't have the break down for each sail with me but the total was $ 1631.00. That was for 135 furling headsail with cover and a full batten,loose foot main. Shipping he said should be under $50.00.
Don Brooks
Leilla Dee #1807

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JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

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1520 Posts

Response Posted - 02/26/2008 : 12:17:10

Don,

It's too late to find out whether or not you needed to buy these wonderful new sails, so you'll just have to sail easier and happier all summer now!

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 02/26/2008 : 13:10:41

If, as has been said here, sails can last 10+ years, they may be one of the cheapest things we might buy for our boat. My new 135 will only cost me about $70/yr.

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GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4304 Posts

Response Posted - 02/26/2008 : 20:53:43

My main, jib, and genoa are originals from what I can tell. The jib and genoa while not in perfect condition seem to have decent shape. My main is really baggy near the foot. The sail needs to be cleaned but I haven't seen any major structural problems except the bagginess.

I'm not into racing yet but do enjoy trying to make the boat go as fast as possible.

Can a sail shop take out that baggy area at a reasonable price? Keep in mind that I squeak when I walk! :)

Edited by - GaryB on 02/26/2008 20:55:54

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3468 Posts

Response Posted - 02/26/2008 : 21:52:28

Gary,

Rcmd take it into a local sailmaker and get an estimate. I would be curious as to what they have to say. I just replaced my sails but still have the old ones and they are same vintage as yours.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4304 Posts

Response Posted - 02/26/2008 : 23:04:22

Larry,

Think I'll do that. The PO emailed earlier today and said he has one of the sails on his new boat over at Quantum Sails across the lake from me. He said they were very friendly.

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3468 Posts

Response Posted - 02/27/2008 : 05:00:38

I have my new Quantum Main Sail on the boat and have used it several times now. very stiff when it comes to getting it under the Main sail cover. Otherwise, nice sail....but I need to get the Quantum genoa on to really see the difference. Right now with the cold and windy weather that has set in, I will probably wait a few weeks before putting the Genoa on.

So...in my old sail inventory, I now have the old Main which is blown out and some threads hanging a bit but structurally it is intact. Same goes for 150 Genoa presently on the boat. The furling Jib I took off last summer, that is a bit ratty and thready. I have not decided what sails I want to offer for sale on the Swap Meet (for those needing a sail for short time use, etc) because I am thinking that I may want to keep a set for backup. For example, Qunatum has a 1 year warranty on the new sails but if you bring them in for an inspection, then they extend the warranty for another year. Also, some people bring in their sails every year for inspections and cleanings. Actually, many pay for Quantum or the other sailmakers to take down the sails, inspect, clean, store and then reinstall in the spring. I may consider bringing them in next year for at least an inspection (maybe cleaning as well) but that's about it. In the meantime until I get them back, I could use the old sails. This is why I am als0o curious as to what a sailmaker has to say about reconditioning your sails...in case I want to consider this for my backups.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 02/27/2008 : 08:01:13

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by GaryB
 My main is really baggy near the foot.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Gary,

This may be due to your main having a shelf foot. If so, then this is normal. My old bolt roped, main sail had a shelf foot that could have been used as a hammock.

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