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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Impeller replacement question

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kaferhaus
1st Mate

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40 Posts

Initially Posted - 02/18/2008 : 08:49:06

I have a 9.9 Honda with a bad impeller. the instructions that I've found for replacing it call for the prop to be removed...

For the life of me, I cannot see why the prop needs to be removed to drop the lower housing to get access to the impeller.

Am I missing something?

Steven Reeves
Dauphin Island, Alabama

Edited by - on

Sloop Smitten
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1181 Posts

Response Posted - 02/18/2008 : 11:32:56

Unless it interferes with the bolts you need to remove I cannot see a reason either. However, as part of the annual maintenance, you should remove the propeller. This will give you an opportunity to inspect it to see the condition of the shear pin and if there is rubber disintegrating which is a sign of the pressed in rubber insert deteriorating. This will eventually lead to a spun prop. You also should clean the shaft and apply some marine grade bearing grease to it. This will assure that the prop does not freeze to the shaft. Make sure you inspect the bearing underneath the impeller while you have it apart. It should spin freely.

Edited by - on

lewalskim
1st Mate

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Response Posted - 02/19/2008 : 07:03:08

I have a 1997 Honda 9.9 that I replaced the impeller on about two years ago. I did not remove the prop. In my opinion, the only reason that Honda recommends removing the prop is for safety. One benefit could also be that it may be easier to handle the lower housing without it attached.

Now last Friday (15th) I just completed some o/b work that I would recommend to you while you are replacing the impeller. My list is:

1. I bought a wheeled outboard carrier (under $75) that I wholly recommend for ease of moving your motor around.
2. I pulled and replaced the prop; it was super easy. My Honda original had spun and getting a new one was only $10 more than refitting the old. Use a SS cotter pin during installation if you remove yours.
3. Replace the plugs. Make sure to gap them correctly.
4. Replace the fuel filter. I bought a small one from the local automotive shop.
5. Replace the oil. Just over 1 qt. and cheap.
6. Replace the gear lube. Wow! was mine blacker than midnight... good or bad, now it has nice new lube. I bought a pump ($7) to use with the quart bottle.
7. While the prop was off, I put the lower unit in a trash can filled with water and a Salt Away solution and ran on and off for about a week to help clean out the salt buildup.
8. I ran the engine while spraying carb cleaner into the intake to help remove any varnish. I didn't want to disassemble the carb for cleaning since it was working fairly well.
9. Grease or lube the parts that need grease or lubing.

I have been running the gas out of the carb after I come back to my slip now for about three years. It seems to have worked for me as I get no more sputtering and it starts very easily (1-3 pulls if cold and 1 pull if warm). Some folks do this and some don't.

Good luck!

Edited by - on

JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

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1520 Posts

Response Posted - 02/19/2008 : 08:57:18

I also have a Honda 9.9 (2003) and I bought the shop manual to keep up maintenance.

To remove the water pump & impeller the instructions call for removing the propellor, the propellor shaft holder, and the gear case assembly with the water pump, then removing the extension separator above the gear case.

Needed equipment and tools:
torqu wrench
marine grease
SS cotter pin replacement
2.5 mm pin driver
impeller gasket
impeller, if worn or cracked
oil seal remover, to replace water seal
water seal driver
water seal attachment
water seal pilot
hydraulic press for bushing replacement
bushing driver
bushing pilot
needle bearing remover set
needle bearing remover weight
needle bearing driver
needle bearing pilot
wrenches
screwdrivers

If I were to replace my impeller and the engine blows up this summer, I'd be really ticked. My plan is to let Honda do it.

Edited by - on

lewalskim
1st Mate

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USA
70 Posts

Response Posted - 02/19/2008 : 09:36:47

kaferhaus,
Just remember, JohnP is telling you all the equipment and tools for a water pump AND impeller removal for a 2003 model. The impeller removal and replacement on my engine was quite easy and required few tools. Your o/b year probably falls into the 9.9/15 common engine block (earlier like mine) or the 8/9.9 common block (like his I believe) so the instructions could easily be different. I too, bought a shop manual for the engine and think that it is indispensable.

With the shop manual, some tools and equipment, and some bravery to work on it myself (most all non-recurring costs), I saved at least a couple hundred dollars from the $300+ that the local shop charges and I saved $3-400 that the Honda dealer would charge for the same work; at least in my area.

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dave holtgrave
Captain

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USA
427 Posts

Response Posted - 02/19/2008 : 10:22:28

hey guys
where is a good place to find the honda shop manual??

dave holtgrave
5722 sk/tr

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JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

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1520 Posts

Response Posted - 02/19/2008 : 10:44:20

Owner's manual
http://www.honda-marine.com/

Shop manual
http://www.repairmanual.com/marine/4

Edited by - JohnP on 02/19/2008 11:11:48

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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3477 Posts

Response Posted - 02/19/2008 : 11:22:51

I have a 2006 9.9Hp Honda. Also have the shop manual. I have changed spark plugs, fuel & oil filter, engine & lower end oil. I believe the manual mentions inspecting the impeller annually. I can't see doing it that often if I have the periodicity correct. My rational is that I use it in freshwater so it's less susceptible to sea crust. Also, it being used on a sailboat, it sees only a fraction of use compared to a motorboat. I believe when I had a new 7.5Hp Evinrude back in 1980 and used on Long Island Sound, I did not change the impellor in the 5 years I owned ther boat.

Anyway, I am contemplating changing the impellor this coming fall when the motor will be about 2 1/2 years old. I have to check my manual but after seeing John's list of supplies, etc needed for the job....maybe I will bring it in for Honda engine mechanic to do the job as well.

Any opinion as to how long these impellers last before there is a hint of it failing ? or be on the safe side change it out...how frequent ?

Edited by - on

kaferhaus
1st Mate

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40 Posts

Response Posted - 02/19/2008 : 11:40:22

Mark.. I agree, I was told by one of the mechanics at the honda dealer (70 miles away) that it can easily be done with common hand tools. NO need to remove the prop etc.

My engine is less than 3yrs old.... I've no idea if it's the 9.9/15hp block or not but it has the kind of egg shaped engine cover .... model BABJ..

Biggest pain in the butt is going to be getting the engine off and then back on the boat.

I asked the mechanic about all the special tools and his response was that they don't even have those tools.... and that even replacing the entire pump they aren't needed as common bushings and drivers can be used to seat the seals etc..

Thanks for all the helpful information guys, a great resource this is indeed!

Edited by - on

farrison
Navigator

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USA
166 Posts

Response Posted - 02/19/2008 : 14:12:06

The only reason I would remove the prop is if you inadvertently drop the lower unit on the ground, it is either going to land on the skeg or one of the prop blades. If it hits on a blade and bends it, even slightly, then it will screw up the performance of the prop and you can't straighten it. I agree with Joe above and use the opportunity to inspect the rubber sleeve or shear pin ( if it has one) and make sure there is no fishing line around the shaft that could work it's way into the shaft seal and let water into your lower unit. I think taking it off is cheap insurance.

Paul

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Sloop Smitten
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1181 Posts

Response Posted - 02/20/2008 : 09:00:16

Regarding the life expectancy of the impeller, I have a 1999 8HP Honda. It was on the boat when I purchased it in 2004. In 2004 and 2005 I motored to and from Catalina each year (48 miles each way) and took numerous trips where I motored almnost exclusively. (I was new to sailing and motoring was more comfortable.) I changed the impeller out in 2006 and the impeller looked brand new. However, the bearing underneath it felt rough when spun. I replaced both of them. An annual inspection seems like overkill. When you have run your engine a while place your hand on top of the flywheel, or recoil starter, and get a feel for how warm it is. You can them monitor it occasionally to see if it is overheating. It should be warm, but not hot. Of course if the pee-hole is slow or plugged you have either a worn impeller or plugged water passage. People who work on their engine have a much better feel for when a problem arises and also what it will take to fix it. Mechanics hate them.

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JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

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1520 Posts

Response Posted - 02/20/2008 : 11:28:02

Joe,
Did you need any special tools? I'd like to do that kind of maintenance, if it's feasible without spending $100 for tools.

Edited by - JohnP on 02/20/2008 11:29:10

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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3477 Posts

Response Posted - 02/20/2008 : 11:30:58

If the water was to shoot out slower than normal, I would hope I notice that. I guess what my fear is that if inspected periodically according to the shop manual, then likely will have no impeller issues but I think it mentioned inspecting it annually which does seem like an overkill. If I let the inspection go for say 3-4 years (freshwater use) with thought that I will just replace it then, what are the chances of the impeller catastrophically failing ?

I guess I wondering how these impellers fail. My thought was that if a crack developed, then eventually a piece of the impeller could fall off and then it would not function...resulting in sudden overheating of the motor and may go un-noticed for the brief period of time when this happens. So...to avoid something like that happening, the impeller is inspected periodically and replaced before a small deficiency in the impeller migrates into a full fledge crack and failure. But i have not seen an impeller in recent years for these motors and I was wondering if they possibly are less prone to failure nowadays compared to 20 years ago - maybe a matl change ?

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Sloop Smitten
Master Marine Consultant

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1181 Posts

Response Posted - 02/20/2008 : 13:46:55

John,
The only tool I used out of the ordinary was a slide hammer to pop the bearing out of the case. You could probably take it to a shop to have that done if needed.

Larry,
Impeller failure is usually due to one of the arms cracking and falling off. I replaced the impeller on my 5HP Yamaha last year and one of the arms had developed a crack which would have eventually led to it breaking off. If it breaks off it could lodge somewhere where it will impede flow. This should show up as reduced flow through the pee-hole. I'm sure you are at smaller risk being in a fresh water environment as dried salt will act as an abrasive inside the water pump and could block passages which would exert additional pressure on the impeller. Unless you observe overheating or reduced flow I wouldn't tear into it more then every third season and perhaps as many as five. JMHO

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OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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3477 Posts

Response Posted - 02/20/2008 : 22:36:00

Joe - Thank you so much for your opinion. Tipping the scales for me not to take the motor off next fall !!!

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