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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

135 or 150 genoa?

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capnedo
Deckhand

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USA
10 Posts

Initially Posted - 02/20/2008 : 11:49:27

I have a C25 tall rig that I've sailed for about 6 years. My sails are shot and should be; they're 25 years old. I've done some racing, moderately successfully (even with bedsheets for sails), but am mostly a cruiser. I'm buying new sails this season, most likely the Ullman sails made through Catalina Direct.

My question is this, does anyone have any opinions on a 135 genoa as opposed to a 150? I've always used a 150 on a furler. However, my boat sails noticeably better with the 110 (I use it when wind conditions are higher). The 150 I have is too old to have luff foam for good sailing while furled. It's also hard to rate how well the 150 really works, since it's so ragged out.

It struck me that perhaps the 135 would be a better choice (with luff foam): less sail to furl to get it down near a 110 for higher wind situations, so perhaps better sail shape in those conditions. Also, perhaps a better sail when all the way out...often the 150 just seems like more than necessary and overpowers sooner than I think it should...again, I don't really know because the sail is pretty taxed.

I'm not a big racer, so getting every tiny bit of sail area isn't crucial, plus it's a tall rig, so I'm already getting bonus sail area anyway.

However, I know the 150 is most common on these boats and maybe there's a reason for that besides eeking out every ounce of sail area possible.

I could really use some opinions from anyone who's used the 135 or used both...thanks!!

Eric

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 02/20/2008 : 12:12:14

Our search function will provide you with plenty of reading, I used 135, Catalina 25 forum, Frank Hopper to find this from a while ago...

I do not race anymore, when I decided to buy a 135 for FellowShip I wanted to get exactly what I wanted. I have described this purchase many times so forgive me if you are already familiar with it. I wanted a sail that would stay unfurled as long as possible, that is because the Catalina 25 is headsail driven and my mainsail reefing is so easy to do that I can do it on any point of sail so I will often reef the main before I reef the headsail. A reefed headsail is a lousy upwind sail if you care about sail shape. I am a sailshape fanatic. SO to maintain a clean entry at the luff I need to leave my 135 full as long as possible. Catalina 25s are moderately canvassed, so the idea of loosing the area of a 150 in favor of the single handling ease of a 135 is also disturbing so I decided to maximize the size of the 135 buy having it built with a maximum hoist rather than the typical shorter hoist of a 135, so I took a tape to the boat and measured the distance that I had to work with. I also had the clew lowered so there is as much true sail area as possible to my 135. Because I leave it unreefed up into the upper teens I had it designed flatter than normal, it also reefs cleaner with a flatter shape. I also had it built out of a slightly heavier cloth so the higher winds would not stretch it out too quickly. I specified woven straps rather than SS rings at the tack and head, I specified a telltale window and a set of telltales at 100% so when I do reef I now where 100% is. I did a few other things to the specifications as well. My point is that Who cares what anyone else bought, I think you should be focused on what you want and order it. You have your rig measurement, decide what you want the 135 to be and order that. Or if you don't care about all those things that keep me up at night then just order the stock sail from one of the companies that carries them. I ordered mine from Ullman Ventura, they make the Catalina Direct sails.

Edited by - on

gop711
1st Mate

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Armenia
83 Posts

Response Posted - 02/20/2008 : 12:26:11

Eric,

I was in your shoes about this time last year. I asked for and followed the advise of Frank.

I bought a 135 from Ullman. I race some, but cruise more.

I am very happy with the 135 and I will buy all my future sails from Ullman.

Greg

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 02/20/2008 : 12:38:14

Frank is more of a fanatic than I, and his 135 is more of a decksweeper... On my SR on Long Island Sound, I found the 135 to be the perfect sail--manageable, good power, and decent visibility. I used it alone (no main) many times. Some like a 155 to be able to bury the rail... I question whether it helps in light air, when it's likely to be harder to shape properly... YMMV.

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 02/20/2008 : 12:40:18

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Frank Hopper
 I do not race anymore,...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Mmmmmmmm hmmmmmmm... and exactly what's going on in that picture?

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dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 02/20/2008 : 14:51:10

I went with Frank's arguments (not including from whom to purchase) and bought a new Rolly Tasker 135 from National Sail Supply in Brooksville, FL, albeit right after I found a decent used 150 for just over $200. Mine are hank-on, not furling, and my primary sailing is inland lake cruising with maybe an occasional club race. I also specified a slightly heavier 5 oz cloth rather than the std 4.5 oz to extend the wind range. Total cost for the 135 was $645, after shipping.

Edited by - dmpilc on 02/20/2008 14:52:19

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 02/20/2008 : 14:52:59

Uh Dave, I am sailing while facing backwards talking to an extraordinarily beautiful woman. Non-sailors are wandering randomly around my boat. If you are commenting on the trim of my sails and obvious boat speed I can only say that as helmsmen, we Kansans have little else to do so... there you have it, I can sail faster backwards than anyone from the Chesapeake can facing forwards.

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 02/20/2008 : 15:33:35

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dave Bristle
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Frank Hopper
 I do not race anymore,...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Mmmmmmmm hmmmmmmm... and exactly what's going on in that picture?

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Where two or more are gathered together........ there is competition! You know, Dave, that the very first sailboat race started the minute somebody launched the second ever sailboat!

I recently went through this same decision process. I'll recap my thoughts. I often sail on very light wind days. So, I knew that I wanted a larger headsail. Also, my 110 had its seams ripped out last spring while sitting at the dock, furled. I had it repaired but was advised to replace it after the season.

My first thought was to buy a 150% and just furl it to 135% when appropriate. But, after reading a lot, I realized that sail shape suffers when furled. That's not really a huge issue for me since I don't race but nonetheless I thought it an issue. My second thought was that I singlehand a lot. I just thought a 150% would be just that much more difficult too handle by myself in the event of a problem. Finally, while I sail in very light wind a lot, the potential for sudden ugly weather on Lake Erie is notorious. In the event of a blow, a 150 would be just too much sail, I thought. Now, understand, I have a C250 which is thought to be more tender in big wind than a C25.

All of that led me to the purchase of a 135% that I'm anxious to hoist this spring. If it proves to be too little sail on the very light days, I may add a drifter next season.

BTW, I bought a Rolly Tasker sail from National Sail at: http://www.nationalsail.com/

Edited by - on

capnedo
Deckhand

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USA
10 Posts

Response Posted - 02/20/2008 : 17:39:18

Thanks very much for your help everyone! Think I'm gonna give the 135 a shot...that was sort of my gut instinct based on my needs to start with, and this reinforces it. If for some crazy reason it's not enough for me in light air, that's a nice excuse for a cruising spinnaker...sweeeet.

Edited by - on

andy
Navigator

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USA
228 Posts

Response Posted - 02/20/2008 : 22:31:37

I suggest a 135 for your tall rig. A 150 will overpower you in anything over 12 kts of air. A 150/155 works fine on a standard rig. You'll also have more leeway sailing to weather with the bigger sail if you have a wing keel (the only problem with the wing). I went to a 135 (approx. due to some mods) Doyle pentex sail awhile back and the boat likes it better than the 155 we were using. It's actually faster to weather in light air than the 155 was. If you have a furler and shorten the sail when the wind pipes, you'll give away ALOT of performance and most furlers on our size boats aren't "reefing furlers"

cheers...

Edited by - andy on 02/20/2008 22:51:10

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