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Harken Lazy Jack Kit

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Joel37027
Deckhand

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USA
21 Posts

Initially Posted - 02/28/2008 : 14:27:04

Has anyone had any experience installing the small Harken Lazy Jack kit on the C25? Was it easy to install? Are you satisfied with its operation?

Joel Warren
s/v Belle Amie C25 SR/SK #4711
Harbor Island Yacht Club
Old Hickory, TN

Edited by - on

Jonathan Cuff
Navigator

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Cayman Island
173 Posts

Response Posted - 02/28/2008 : 14:34:15

Hi Joel

We put one on Pie Sees II when we got her back in 2003. I seem to remember installation was easy (there are good instructions). One thing that e should have looked at more is then hauling the sail the battens sometimes get jammed under the lazy jack rope, and then we end up having to lower a bit and then re-haul. I guess you really need to look at the mounting position.

Cheers Jonathan

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Joel37027
Deckhand

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USA
21 Posts

Response Posted - 02/28/2008 : 14:43:10

I have heard that getting tangled up can be a problem. I guess the real question is; on a boat the size of the C25 with relatively small sails, is a Lazy Jack system worth the aggravation? Would you do it again?

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stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Response Posted - 02/28/2008 : 16:51:05

There was a Lazy Jack system on Labarca when I bought her four years ago. It was a pain in the butt. I removed it.
Last year I thought I would try it again. I installed it, used it for a month then removed it. It now resides in a box under my work bench until I can find another use for the hardware.

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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 02/28/2008 : 21:28:11

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Joel37027
 I have heard that getting tangled up can be a problem. I guess the real question is; on a boat the size of the C25 with relatively small sails, is a Lazy Jack system worth the aggravation? Would you do it again?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Our boats are too small.

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dave holtgrave
Captain

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USA
427 Posts

Response Posted - 02/28/2008 : 21:39:27

hey guys

i used a system similar to a tech tip diagram.

the secret to not getting tangled is to be sure your heads to wind when you go up or down.
personally i onloy use them if the wind kicks up and i need a little help by myself.

i stow them against the mast when not in use.

sure helps get the sail downa nd gathered when you need that quick help.

dave holtgrave
5722 sk/tr
hard and dry near carlyle lake in southern illinois

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Even Chance
Captain

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USA
393 Posts

Response Posted - 02/29/2008 : 05:51:19

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Joel37027
 Has anyone had any experience installing the small Harken Lazy Jack kit on the C25? Was it easy to install? Are you satisfied with its operation?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Yes, it works fine.

The advantage, for me, in having jacks comes when I douse the main in significant wind and seas, and don't want the downed sail blowing all over the boat when I turn out of the wind. I usually sail singlehanded, and often don't stow the main until I'm inside the jetty and the calm of the harbor. The jacks contain the sail until I can deal with it.

It is true that battens can hang on the jacks when you are raising the sail. It helps if you
1. keep the bow into the wind when raising the main.
2. ease the mainsheet so the boom will swing with variations in the wind direction
3. watch the main as you raise it -- sometimes you need to time the haul a little to keep the battens off the jacks.

Another advantage of jacks is that they will substitute for a topping lift if needed. (Yes, I have a topping lift, too -- no, they aren't as good as a topping lift -- that isn't my point.)

One of the advantages of the Harken kit is that it stows against the mast (I loop mine over the big halyard cleats on the mast) when not in use, eliminating any need to modify the sail cover. If you don't want to use them a particular sail, leave them be.

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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 02/29/2008 : 07:46:23

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Frank Hopper
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Joel37027
 I have heard that getting tangled up can be a problem. I guess the real question is; on a boat the size of the C25 with relatively small sails, is a Lazy Jack system worth the aggravation? Would you do it again?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Our boats are too small.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Joel, no one likes toys more than I do.

When people look at my boat they see nice equipment. My personal opinion is that many people lose sight of how small our boats are. It is very easy to step over the line an make our boats look like "wanna be posers". The worst thing is a wheel on our little boats, anyone who has one please forgive me but, they look ridiculous. Davits would be absurd, a windlass simply a point of mockery. Lazy Jacks are designed for large sails, to facilitate sail handling. The Catalina 25 has a small main. Full battens are a huge improvement over short batten mains because one grab of the sail any where near the middle of the boom and you have the entire sail in your arm and if you do not have a centipede then a quick grab of the boomvang tail gives you something to tie the sail off to the boom; it happens in seconds. If I had a short batten main and felt like I needed more control when dropping the main I would spend the money on a new main. If you are dropping a main in a really bad blow and do not want to leave the cockpit then, (assuming you are coming in and are in your harbor), open your main hatch, drop the sail and cross the wind which will backwind the dropped main pile and blow it across the center line of the cabin under the boom and it will fall into the cabin through the open hatch. Once again a full batten main does this best as the battens point down into the cabin and keep the sail from coming back out.
All that said; if you want to paint your boat pink, put airhorns on the bow and a teak swim platform on the back... go ahead, its your boat. However jerks like me will be sitting at the end of the dock talking about you.

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DaveR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2015 Posts

Response Posted - 02/29/2008 : 08:14:41

I'm with Frank. Our Main's are very small and easy to deal with. Although I haven't used a lazy jack I'm looking at it as unneeded clutter in the rigging and will put that money in the chartplotter basket

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 02/29/2008 : 09:11:16

Frank,

Does this mean I should scratch "bow thruster" off my "to do" list?

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John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 02/29/2008 : 09:11:22

Frank is often right. This time -- not so much. I have jacks that the PO installed so, I don't have a clue what kind but I think they're great. I singlehand a lot and, like Brooke, don't secure the sail until I'm well within calm water.

I have an arm span of about 5 - 6 feet. With one hand "for the boat", that leaves a lot of my "small mainsail" outside the grasp of my other arm in ugly weather. As to leaving the main hatch open to catch the sail, remember Frank's on a body of water that involves somebody shouting "can I get a little help here" if he runs into trouble. (I'm exagerating, Frank, but you've said as much in other discussions.) If the weather is such on Lake Erie that you don't feel comfortable leaving the cockpit, I'm thinking you wouldn't want your main hatch wide open either.

As to the idea of clutter. I hate clutter. Ask my kids. A couple of relatively thin lines extending from each side of the boom to the mast are hardly noticable.

I will say that the down side of the jacks occurs when putting on the sail cover. But, that's not terrible.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 02/29/2008 : 10:41:26

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dlucier
 Frank,

Does this mean I should scratch "bow thruster" off my "to do" list?

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
nah, people can't see it and would be awestruck by your docking skills! Sounds like a great upgrade.

I do always speak as a lake sailor, and as I noted I would not recommend having the main hatch and companionway open unless in your harbor. I suspect lazy jacks would force a person out of the cockpit as often as they would keep a person in due to hanging up issues. Let's face it if you really want a selfmanaging main you get a Doyle StackPac. I would also think that if a person were to pursue aiding a main dropping it would lead them to Batcars and an external mast track. A friend installed a mast track system on his Catalina 28, had a new full batten main made with the luff cars on it and that main drops fast enough to hurt someone, and gets all the way down every time. It is impressive.
If a person feels they cannot leave their tiller long enough to gather up a main I think they need to work on tiller management, not mainsail management. Start the motor, leave it in neutral, lock the tiller, deal with the main. Now I did have one time where a friend was on the tiller in very high wind while I was at the boom and she did not hold it into the wind long enough for me to deal with the sail, (a locked tiller would have), and she nearly knocked me off the boat when the boom crossed over. I saw it happening and just sat real quick on the cabin top as the boom came across. She missed me!

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tinob
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1883 Posts

Response Posted - 02/29/2008 : 13:18:03

Joel,

I installed the Harken jacks that you mentioned and find them easily installed and helpful in managing the main. An alternative that you might be interested in is something called "easyjacks" works like the Harkin but without the expense. Should you decide that they are not for you you'll just end up with a bag full of small diameter line usable elsewhere on the boat.

Val on the hard DAGNABIT, # 3936, Patchogue, N.Y.

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Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 02/29/2008 : 14:03:45

What about the dutchman systems? Can't you run them from the cockpit?

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Even Chance
Captain

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USA
393 Posts

Response Posted - 02/29/2008 : 15:56:22

OK, I've put up with this for years, and I'm just tired of it. Get over yourself, Frank. You sail on a fifteen square mile lake. Even if it is as windy as you say, your experience is extremely limited. Just because you post four times per day doesn't mean you know what's best for everybody out there with a C25. You don't have lazy jacks, so you don't know how often they "force a person out of the cockpit." It's not about a "self-managing main," whatever the #$%& that is, or stackpacks or whatever. I can guarantee you that the first day I used my brand new, stiff, Doyle main it helped to have lazyjacks keep the main on TOP of the boom instead of spilling down the sides.

Your boat is gorgeous, Frank. You've made lots of useful and creative modifications of which you should rightly be proud. But stop pontificating about things with which you've had no experience. Of the respondents to this thread who actually have installed jacks, the vote is 4 to 1 in favor.

Joel, check out a boat in your area with lazyjacks and talk to the owner. See if you can wrangle a ride. You're welcome to visit me anytime this summer and check out mine.

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Joel37027
Deckhand

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USA
21 Posts

Response Posted - 02/29/2008 : 16:11:07

Who would have thought that such a simple question about Lazy Jacks would render such emotions.

I also sail my C25 on an inland lake so the consequences of wave action on my ability to secure the main is not a factor. I would simply be trying to avoid the need to gather and tie down the main before I get back to may mooring.

I did a Google on Easy Jacks as an alternative but could not find a web site for this product. I assume that this produce is less likely to tangle with the battens. Does anyone have a link to this site?

Edited by - on

JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

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1520 Posts

Response Posted - 02/29/2008 : 17:35:17

Here's a tough situation --- Three of us sailing on a broad reach in 10 knot winds and 6 foot waves outside the stone jetty and into Old Harbor on Block Island. We started the motor. The skipper had to get the main down, so he told me to turn into the wind and he dropped the main onto the cabin top and then had trouble getting the jib down with the bow jumping up and down. He threw one sail tie around the main and climbed up to the bow to wrestle with the jib. Lazyjacks might have made the main look better, but it was dropping the sail at the right moment that kept us off the stone jetty.

In my harbor on the Chesapeake there are no waves, but it is always a question of taking the driving force out of the main at the correct moment, with the tiller held in place, usually by the tiller tamer. Centering the jib with both sheets before that moment helps to drop the jib on the deck. I just use one bungee cord to hold the main while I get both sails organized.

Lazyjacks may help some sailors on a C25, but I can easily get by without.

It's all fun, and these little challenges make sailing good exercise for my arms and my mind, too.

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OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3448 Posts

Response Posted - 02/29/2008 : 18:06:22

I have given lazy jacks some thought...but not enough to make a jump for it. Verdict is still out for me regarding the whole thing.

In regards to the bow thruster - Now there is a great improvement project ! So who cares if we have shrimpy boats compared to a 47 ! Give me a bow thruster and I can show up all those boats in my marina docking and undocking !!

I saw a write-up on how to do it yourself in one of the boat magazines. I'll have to see if I still have the article.

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roberoo
Navigator

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USA
182 Posts

Response Posted - 03/02/2008 : 12:46:08

Just another thought: I use the harken Lazy Jack System (It was on the boat when I bought her).
I am adding a "MackPack" I bought it two years ago and am finally going to get it set up.

http://macksails.com/mackpack.htm

It basically is a "Poor mans" Dutchman System.
My reasoning is to mack the end of the day more pleasant. My Family balks at all of the work to put the boat away for the nigyt. So this I am thinking will cut down on that.
Yes I know it is a small boat etc....

But whatever gets me and my family on the boat more is the best investment.

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Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 03/02/2008 : 18:46:56

I installed the Harken kit on my 25. I like it, especially when single handing. Yes, it will hang up the full batten main sometimes when hoisting, but isn't a big problem to get it un-hung by pointing directly upwind.
Yes, I would do it again.
Whoever buys my 25 is welcome to remove the lazy jacks if they don't like them.

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triley
Captain

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USA
251 Posts

Response Posted - 03/11/2008 : 16:30:27

The help in single handing may be a good reason for doing it. Last thing you want to do is step on your main. Bad for sail, bad for you.

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Jefffriday
Navigator

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USA
198 Posts

Response Posted - 03/11/2008 : 18:55:57

I roll up the genoa with the furler, start the motor, point into the wind, engage the autopilot, and I can go get a beer after I spend as much time with the main as I want... alone

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