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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Bildge Pump Mystery

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Deric
Captain

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USA
408 Posts

Initially Posted - 03/09/2008 : 17:26:21

Hello Folks,

Below is the text from the Catalina Pre-88 manual. You may note the handle is supposed to be inserted through the water-tight fitting in the cockpit.

My '78 Catalina 25 has a bildge pump - - I found it on the floor of the hull behind the swing keel cable area. I also noticed none of the hoses were connected. Okay, I asked myself, isn't the pump supposed to be in an area that is easily accessible, and where and how would one pump water?

Interestingly, there is a hole through the transom; appears to be made for a hose connection for the pump; however, when I bought the boat, the battery cables to the outboard motor were wired through the hole in the transom.

Anyone have knowledge of where the bildge pump should be located?
Was the water tight fitting something added after 1978?

Looking for advice.

### from manual ###
MANUAL BILGE PUMP
The manual bilge pump is located in the port cockpit locker. The handle is stored in a clip fitting just
above the pump inside the locker. Insert the handle through the water-tight fitting in the cockpit to
operate the pump.
The pump pick-up is in the keel stub under the main cabin sole. The pump hoses are 1" I.D.

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3449 Posts

Response Posted - 03/09/2008 : 17:53:06

My manual bilge pump is made by Whale and is located in the port side cockpit locker. This manual pump is mounted visible on the seat wall and that is where you stick the handle to pump it. The handle for my manual bilge pump was left by the PO in one of the drawers under the sink. These manual bilge pumps are pretty old and the rubber needs to be closely looked at for signs of cracking/splitting open. I am considering replacing it or at least the diaphragm parts if the mfr still has them available for it.

Edited by - OLarryR on 03/09/2008 17:58:44

Deric
Captain

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USA
408 Posts

Response Posted - 03/09/2008 : 18:20:04

Hi Larry,

I hadn't thought about the inner guts of the bilge pump needing replacement. Sheesh, I'll bet it is the original pump 30 years of age.

This is the link from CatalinaDirect and shows the handle only - - looks like through the water tight seal.
http://www.catalinadirect.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.search

Because you had mentioned Whale, I did a search on the Internet. This model may be the closest to my older model
http://www.discountmarinesupplies.com/Hand_Pumps-WHALE_GUSHER_URCHIN_MANUAL_BILGE_PUMP.html

Although this is a real whale pump:
http://www.target.com/gp/search/601-7339607-8343342?field-keywords=whale-pump&AFID=Google&CPNG=Bath&LNM=whale_pump&LID=22666377&ref=tgt_adv_XSGT0647

I'll check to see if there is replacement components as well. I am going to have to test the pump this year before splashing.

Thank you for your response. Based on what you had described, perhaps my pump is supposed to be mounted on the locker wall somewhere. I'll check it out; better to have it there than banging around on the floor of the hull.

I suspect the hole in the transom was originally for the hose of the bilge pump, not to run battery cables.

- Deric

Edited by - on

stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Response Posted - 03/09/2008 : 20:25:44

The bilge pump is supposed to drain out of a 1" discharge pipe on the port side of the stern...just to the left of the cockpit drain pipes. Mine is just under the ladder when the ladder is folded up.

Sounds like your PO may have installed an electric pump - which could still be a good idea. Look for the discharge hose, you should be able to locate it on the port side of the quarter berth, or by getting your head into the port dumpster.

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3449 Posts

Response Posted - 03/09/2008 : 22:07:00

Deric,

The Target URL did not open to any specific thing but I was able to get to the other Whale links. I have not really looked into this too much but I would be interested in replacing the guts of the existing Whale Pump and there is a possibility that the company that makes these pumps may actually have replacments parts for it. It is possible that a number of their models thru the years use the same rubber internals.

My existing unit does work. I guess my concern is that this is just the type of component that fails at just the worst time...when it's use requires lot's of pumping and then that's when it's past deterioration works it's way into complete breakdown. It's present deterioration is noticeable looking at the rubber diaphragm while doing the pumping action - You can see the breaks in the rubber. Once those completely open up, it will allow air in and that is when the pump will probably fail to pump.

Edited by - on

tinob
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1883 Posts

Response Posted - 03/10/2008 : 12:50:04

I replaced the innards of the pump on my '83 Catalina from a kit found in WM. To the left of the forum page there is a link to Manuals and Brochures. One surely will find a diagram of the pump and its location.

Val on the hard DAGNABIT, # 3936, Patchogue, N.Y.

Edited by - on

stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Response Posted - 03/10/2008 : 13:09:22

I have not had good experience with any pumps made by 'Whale'.
I've got two of them in my sink, both need to be replaced. I had one in a stinkpotter, had one in a camper. The problem seems to be dry diaphram - if not used for a while mine dried out and lost their ability to generate suction. Perhaps not a good scenario for a bilge pump that might be necesary in an emergency.
The factory installed manual bilge pump on my C25 worked well in an emergency situation - first time it had been used in about three years it worked like a champ. I don't know the quality of a Whale bilge pump but from personal experience, I would not take the chance and would go with whatever Catalina specs.

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3449 Posts

Response Posted - 03/10/2008 : 14:08:43

Catalina specs specify the Whale Pump. In fact, I sent an EMail to Catalina this morning and they forwarded a prompt response with a Whale valve Number for me to check with Whale and see if it does match the timeframe age-wise with my boat. Then to see if the parts are still available to overhaul it or a replacement is available with same footprint. I will also stop at WM and see if i can find on their shelf the parts pack discussed above. Maybe they have a parts pack that is made for certain models going way back to the beginning of time.

My thought regarding Whale Bilge Pumps is that they are reliable. They are a well known name used for manual bilge pumps for years. However, some of their other pumps and applications may not be as popular and meet stiff resistance competitively from other mfrs.

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 03/10/2008 : 15:24:44

When I contacted Whale, I did not receive a reply. Better luck to you!

Edited by - on

stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Response Posted - 03/10/2008 : 16:45:34

Mine is a Beckson.

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Deric
Captain

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USA
408 Posts

Response Posted - 03/10/2008 : 19:32:55

Okay Folks,

I have a "Guzzler" from the Bosworth Company.

Here is a link:
http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|51|299222|84462|805844&id=150826

The 500 model looks like the one I have. The pump is also screwed onto a .5 inch piece of plywood that is about 6 inches x 12 inches. Of course it's not attached to anything.

Based on the description by others of the locattion of the hole on the transom (port side), but near my outboard - - my ladder is on the starboard side off the transom - - the purpose of the hole is to discharge water, and not for battery cables to start the outboard. If I connect the bilge hose back to the discharge outlet, I may need to drill another hole for the battery cables to the outboard.

BTW - I have an old Chrystler 10HP outboard, app 1978-1980. Run great, 2 cycle.

Edited by - on

bigelowp
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1773 Posts

Response Posted - 03/15/2008 : 20:58:50

A word of caution . . . last year I purchased a replacement pump from CD and found that it was not an exact replacement. Whale made several versions and it appears that Catalina used several versions on the 25. The rebuild kit will work on them all, but the replacement pump may, or may not be the same model as your boat originally had and, therefore, the slot for the handle may or may not work. Regardless, having a good manual pump is essential for safety and peace of mind.

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3449 Posts

Response Posted - 03/15/2008 : 22:39:33

Semi-good and bad news:

I checked out my bilge pump again - it's configuration. The rubber diaphragm that sticks out of the seat wall is more of a support/mount for the fitting that the handle goes into. When the handle is inserted and pumped, it moves a lever that passes thru the rubber diaphragm and moves the valve diaphragm which is in the locker. The rubber diaphragm in the seat wall is the one with the cracks. The valve diaphragm looked pretty good. But I was checking this out after work and I did not have time to see how the valve diaphragm looks when it is flexed by the lever arm...so something addl to check. I went out sailing today but forgot to check out the bilge pump. Anyway...that was the semi-good news.

Whale has so far not responded to my EMail. This is same experience Prospector/Chris mentioned. This does not exactly sit right with me and I may think twice before leaping into buying a repair kit that might not be for my Whale Model.

I am going to look over that valve diaphragm when the handle is pumped and see if there are any noticeable cracks. If none, then I may not mess with it. I may also consider replacing the pump.

Edited by - on

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