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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Waterline

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tight
Deckhand

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USA
14 Posts

Initially Posted - 03/15/2008 : 17:50:33

Purchased a 1980 25 last fall and intend to redue bottom paint- Boat appears bow heavy if you look at the current paint job-does anyone have the measurement from the main deck to waterline? There is no weight forward.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 03/15/2008 : 18:12:11

If you have a swing keel, it tends to sit bow down when the keel is down.

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Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 03/16/2008 : 00:11:50

Mine doesn't dip below the waterline stripe, and I would even be hard pressed to call it bow down.

Edited by - on

quilombo
Captain

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USA
301 Posts

Response Posted - 03/16/2008 : 00:41:56

I tend to agree with Don, my swing keel, sits stern up , bow down when the swing is down, I know because I had a problem with the Previous owners outboard installation, and when I was trying out the engine, the propeller was out of the water with my keel in the down position, when I cranked it up , it seemed to help the situation,
so now that you mentioned it , I remembered that day

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OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3467 Posts

Response Posted - 03/16/2008 : 08:28:08

Interestingthing is that I could not find a freeboard measurement for the various Cat 25/250 Models. My first impression of the Catalina 25 was that it's freeboard was a bit less than what I had on my ODay 23. BUt after all these years, that was just a perception.

I guess what we need to do is get the old measuring tape out and take a few measurements. Believe what would be best based on your question is to take readings in the bow, mid and stern sections. Then it would probably also be helpful to record approximately where the stripe is relation to the water surface for those three above readings. My thought is that the builder has the stripe which probably is parallel to the water at about same number of inches from the water surface for all three readings. Otherwise, it probably would look a bit awkward - Give perception that one end is higher or lower regardless of the freeboard.
I will try and take those measurements but it was/is raining and so may or may not get down there later today.

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ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 03/16/2008 : 08:53:26

The PO had raised the waterline (via bottom paint) on the bow of my Mark I swinger... and I raised it a bit more. The early models sit a bit bow down with the keel down and nobody in the cockpit. Sit level with the keel up.

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tight
Deckhand

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USA
14 Posts

Response Posted - 03/16/2008 : 10:59:37

I e-mailed Catalina for the factory measurements - will provide if they provide.

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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 03/16/2008 : 12:13:52

I don't really understand this question. These are displacement boats and the waterline against the hull varies according to load and trim. It is what it is. Sure there is a design waterline but a person should simply load their boat, adjust if needed and go sail. If it sails well then all is well. One of the things about the 250 that doesn't sit well is how many people have added ballast specifically to change the bow trim of the boat. You should not need to do that to a boat. I have never heard of anyone "ballasting" a Catalina 25. I am willing to bet your waterline is fine.

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 03/16/2008 : 13:17:02

"This is a picture of the water line mark I inherited from the PO, is it about the degree of bow down that everyone else has? Note my PO painted over the boot stripe." - Frank Hopper

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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 03/16/2008 : 14:02:14

Exactly, and as some have commented (and this forum taught me), the swingers are often like that, but they sail fine. I just don't think a measurement from the deck to the water means anything. Where would a freeboard measurement be taken? How many places? It just seems like a red herring that has always been handled by the collective wisdom saying, "yeah they're like that".
Here it is again on my '82 after my first season with the boat, My boat slipped with the keel halfway up so that waterline reflects that keel position.

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OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3467 Posts

Response Posted - 03/16/2008 : 15:21:50

I agree pretty much that whatever the freeboard is that's what it is....no big deal a few inches one way or the other --just go sailing as long as the bilge isn't all filled up with water. Frank, from your photo, mine looks pretty much like your boat. I guess my thought is that if someone asks a question and wants to know what the freeboard is...why not take some measurements and provide the info.

The only reason to me why the freeboard was important to me years ago was when I switched from a 16' Luger I sailed on the Long Island south shore bay side and when it was windy with a chop, waves would hit the sides and splash all those in the cockpit. When I had a 13' Banshee (similar to a Laser) that was what sailing was all about - leaning out and getting wet. But with the Luger, it was more pleasure sailing with those that would not want to get wet...The Luger had a small freeboard compared to the Oday Daysailors. Then switching to the ODay 23 and on the north shore - Long Island Sound - Okay this was a substantial sized sailboat and waves never splashed into the cockpit except one time when a storm was approaching and we were trying to get back home. Then the waves exploded on the deck.

When buying a sailboat, I graduated to larger ones and proportionately the freeboard increased. I was not interested in a sailboat with a small freeboard. But all the catalins are pretty much in the same ballb=park regarding the freeboard. I never took a=out a measuring tape to measure it - Eyeballing it was okay as part of reviewing the features of the whole boat.

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Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 03/16/2008 : 15:45:43

I have to agree with Frank. Hanging an outboard off the stern, it it up or down, how much does it weigh? A furler on the bow where there isn't much buoyancy? It really doesn't matter if it sails.

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stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Response Posted - 03/16/2008 : 16:02:04

This is my boat anchored in my favorite gunkholing spot.
Notice that the bow is slightly down. When I'm in the cockpit, I proably counter weight the boat. I don't put any weight in the bow other than 20' chain and anchor, and about 150' line.
The second picture is a closeup with the keel buried in some very long weeds. The keel is not touching bottom.

the bow looks slightly down in this picture. My understanding is, this is how its supposed to be.

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OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3467 Posts

Response Posted - 03/16/2008 : 21:45:15

Here is view of freeboard on '89 WK TR:

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Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 03/16/2008 : 23:57:35

Larry,
I spent a lot days and covered many miles on an Oday 23, and my perception would be the opposite. But like you said, a lot of years have passed.

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OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3467 Posts

Response Posted - 03/17/2008 : 05:29:23

Dave,

Just for curiosity, I may try and make a comparison to the ODay 23. I probably will stop by the boat after work today and do a few things and also get those dimensions. I think i remember that the ODay 23 had that info published...but again it has been a very long time. I'll check.

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Justin
Admiral

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502 Posts

Response Posted - 03/17/2008 : 07:24:05

I took some measurements of my waterline stripes last summer while I was on the hard for someone that emailed me through my site. I found my old message and this is what I have if it's of any help:

The stripe varies in thickness and distance from the rub rail all along the hull because of its shape. Most of the upper stripe is 3/4" thick, then there is a 1/2" space, then a 2-1/2"
lower stripe. At the bow the top stripe is 36-3/4" from the rub rail. At the stern it is 27-3/4" from the rub rail. The curves and angles of the hull are the reason of the changes, but looking at the stripes they are completely flat, level, and look the same thickness the entire length. Under the stern where there is a lot more curvature, the stripes are considerably thicker.

The previous owner may have had the stripe changed when the hull was painted, but I don't know. Mine tends to look pretty level with the keel both up and down.

Keel up:

Keel down:

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 03/17/2008 : 07:53:42

Justin,

Your boat looks like a million bucks!...Nice.

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DaveR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2015 Posts

Response Posted - 03/17/2008 : 08:07:15

Larry's looks awful good too! I'm pulling Bamboo in the next week or two for bottom paint and going to see if I can get her looking comparable.

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OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3467 Posts

Response Posted - 03/17/2008 : 18:46:27

Okay Dave, we will be waiting for photos after you finish the bottom painting and seasonal maintenance !

I measured the freeboard today at various locations. So...for what it's worth this is what I recorded holding a measuring tape off the top of the fiberglass lip on the deck and down to the water surface:

1989 Cat 25 TR WK

Near bow on the starboard side - 43"
Mid-main cabin (between the windows/ports) - 37 1/2"
In line with the companionway - 35"
Near the stern on the starboard side - 38"

The bottom paint is noticeably above the waterline near the bow and the wide stripe starts at least 2-3" above the bottom paint. Waterline is closer to the stripe toward the stern....but now looking at the photo I posted above, the port side shows the bottom paint & stripe pretty much parallel to the water surface from bow to stern. Maybe the outboard motor on the starboard side has something to do with the readings I took toward the stern, though, eyeing it from the center stern view, the boat seems level port vs starboard.

Edited by - OLarryR on 03/17/2008 18:46:54

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 03/18/2008 : 13:31:08

I agree with Frank, you can't rely on the bottom paint edge to gauge the water line since is generally raised the at least durint the first bottom painting. The boot stripe is factory applied and should be relatively consistant throughout the entire fleet.

In 2006 I raced the Nationals in Cleaveland with John Vining on his 79 swinger. He cruises extensively in the North Channel of Lake Huron and has a lot of cruising "stuff" on board which makes the boat very heavy. When racing the top boot stripe was barely visible at the water line. It was plumb in the water in all other respects except it sat deep. The boat sailed fine, particularly in the first night race when the wind picked up. I believe we placed 2d or third in that race, but didn't fair as well overall in lighter winds.

I guess the bottom line....sic, is that the water line is relative so long as you are still showing at least some of the original boot stripe.

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 03/18/2008 : 14:23:38

Also keep in mind that the watermark on the hull is mostly formed when the boat is at rest with nobody aboard. Thus, a boat that sits slightly bow-down in her slip for six days a week, might well level out for the one day with crew in the cockpit and a cooler in the galley.

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 03/18/2008 : 14:47:09

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by aeckhart
 The boot stripe is factory applied and should be relatively consistant throughout the entire fleet.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Except for my boat. It appears my factory boot stripe was applied after a liquid lunch and the stripe is not parallel giving it a rather hogged appearance.

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Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 03/18/2008 : 18:17:04

Is the stripe painted? I presumed that it was molded in as gelcoat. That is the case on other boats I have owned, but I haven't checked Pearl.

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stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Response Posted - 03/19/2008 : 10:50:08

My bootstripe was painted on top of the gel coat using Interlux Brightsides.

A quick way to calculate square footage of your boat's bottom:

0.75 x length x beam

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The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.