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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 250 Specific Forum

rudder mods

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SCnewbie
Navigator

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166 Posts

Initially Posted - 04/01/2008 : 12:09:29

So looking at my rudder, either it has been modified or someone attempted to modify it and put it back to original. I am attaching a picture of it. I can see where the round thing with the bolt through the rudder and the handle has been located lower on the blade. What is the correct place for it and why would it have been changed?

S/V Cornbread
1995 C250WB #161
Charleston SC

Edited by - SCnewbie on 04/01/2008 16:37:50

Second Wind53
1st Mate

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Canada
45 Posts

Response Posted - 04/01/2008 : 16:02:03

The rudder should be all the way down when sailing. This gives the most control. You would only lift up the rudder like your picture if you were going to beach the boat or go through 2 or 3 ft of water.
The handle on the side is to tighten the blade after pulling it all the way down to reduce vibration.
There was a mod on Arlyn's Catalina 250 webpage to inprove the balance so that the rudder didn't have so much helm pressure wanting to round up while sailing. http://www.stewartfam.net/arlyn/ruddermod.html
There has been lots of discussion about the 250 and various rudders & so on. Do a search for "250 rudder" or something similar.

I need to modify my rudder too (which is a Gen #1 fixed) to reduce the amount of weather helm. Same issue as on yours because it is tiring and you can have a hard time doing a simple jibe in 15 nts of wind. Our boat will jibe then round up on the new jibe if you aren't on the tiller with both hands.

Check out all of Arlyn's whole site.

http://www.stewartfam.net/arlyn/

Good luck.

Peter

Edited by - on

SCnewbie
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166 Posts

Response Posted - 04/01/2008 : 16:41:04

Thansk for the reply, I guess I wasn't clear in what I was asking about. I was asking about why I would have two places that the handle has been located in. Where it currently is and about 4 inches lower. You can see the marks on it.

When sailing I realize it needs to point all the way down. It can't right now because it is too long.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 04/01/2008 : 17:34:39

I don't have that rudder but it looks like the PO raised the whole rudder blade up. How else could it pivot at that point since if he drilled a second higher hole there wouldn't be room to pivot. If that is the case maybe the PO wanted a shallower rudder or wanted the handle higher to make it easier to reach.

I'm guessing.

Edited by - on

Russ.Johnson
Commodore

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USA
859 Posts

Response Posted - 04/01/2008 : 21:27:04

The previous owner drilled a second set of holes to lower the rudder blade.
Take a look at the link provided by Peter and from the pictures you can tell where the original holes should be.

The previous owner tried an experiment to make steering easier or to reduce weatherhelm.
I think the experiment didn't work or it didn't make a difference.
He probably wanted a deeper rudder to add more underwater surface area.
More surface area would make turning more work.
Also, lowering the rudder gives less support to the upper part of the rudder and possibly damage the rudder frame or the rudder blade.
I would keep your rudder where it is (in the original set of holes).

In my opinion, the best way to reduce tiller force:
A) Adjust the sail plan and sail shape to balance the main and jib forces.
B) Balance the rudder with the link to Arlyn's site.
C) Try moving the centerboard back (by not lowering it all the way). This will change the pivot point (center of lateral resistance?)

Russ C250WB #793

Edited by - Russ.Johnson on 04/01/2008 21:29:41

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 04/01/2008 : 23:05:55

My guess is that the lower hole was an attempt to get more rudder depth on the first generation rudder. The upper hole is the correct location for the 2nd generation rudder. It also might be possible that the 1st generation hole was at the lower position and when upgrading to the 2nd, the upper hole was added.

Catalina required the rudder head returned to them for the upgrade and if I recall correctly I noted that the side plates were not the original when it was returned fitted to a 2nd rudder. I simply thought that another rudder head had been substituted. It did have shim plates to allow for the thicker 2nd. It could possibly be that the 1st and 2nd used different hole locations and I got new side plates when mine was returned whereas the owner of the rudder in the pic may have simply had another hole location added to his original side plates.

My rudder head mods were a step toward taming the helm. They provided that the rudder rake forward slightly to provide a bit of balance similar to the tuning screws fitted to my Hobie 18, which had large screws that allowed adjusting the rake and thus the balance of the rudders.

Another provision of the changes was to achieve a rudder with both pull up and pull down lines and auto return back down following a grounding. I disliked everything about the rivet/detent hold down system that was stock. After a little wear, it would not hold the rudder fully forward and that in itself was a great contributor to excess torque on the helm.

btw... SC Newbie is fortunate to have in my opinion the best rudder setup available for the 250 wb. Resist all temptation to trade it for a 3rd generation. The hold down system can be improved... but the rudder and beaching concept are superior.

Edited by - on

lewalskim
1st Mate

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USA
70 Posts

Response Posted - 04/03/2008 : 12:48:57

My boat has wheel steering with the 1st gen rudder. I received a 2nd gen blade and head but for a tiller model through Swap Meet. The two heads cannot be used in place of each other; the wheel model has a bracket for attaching the cable linkage whereas the tiller head does not.
I have been planning on re-drilling my current 1st gen rudder head exactly as shown in your photo in order to use the 2nd blade. The pivot point is positioned differently between the two blades which requires this.
By looking at Arlyns web site and comparing the the position of the locking handle in his rudder mod photos and then looking at your photo, you can see that the previous owner did indeed add the 2nd gen blade to a 1st gen rudder head.

Edited by - on

zebra50
Captain

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USA
408 Posts

Response Posted - 04/05/2008 : 10:44:29

My boat also now has wheel steering coverted from tiller after the first two years. The boat came with the beaching rudder. Originally the steering plate was bolted through the rudder and after about a year like that I decided to fix it so I could use the beaching function. Below are the photos. I counter sunk the bolt holes on the inside of the rudder head and installed shorter bolts to hold the steering plate. It works great. I did not have to make any adjustment in the pivot point.

[http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b4db30b3127cce9c5fa69838e400000016108RaNG7ly0Y/img]

Edited by - on

Russ.Johnson
Commodore

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USA
859 Posts

Response Posted - 04/06/2008 : 12:29:00

Jay,
There was a problem with your last picture

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The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.