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britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Initially Posted - 04/08/2008 : 15:36:02

Did a search on the web for Navigation techniques, did not find too much of any help.

Anyone got any good links on the subject?

(I keep looking behind me but don't see the Arrow stating that I am Here!)

Paul

Joint Decision. (Sold)
PO C250WB 2005 Sail # 841.

Moved up to C34 Eximius

Updated August 2015

Edited by - on

Stu Jackson C34
Admiral

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844 Posts

Response Posted - 04/08/2008 : 16:49:22

Paul, a Google search on "marine navigation courses" finds a number of hits. One is: http://www.sailingissues.com/navcourse2.html

I haven't heard of any good ones. The best books are Chapman's and Dutton's is even better if you're really interested in learning you may have to get off your computer and read an actual book. :)

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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3444 Posts

Response Posted - 04/08/2008 : 17:45:24

Paul, I started to post this as a joke but thought a bit more about it and realized that this might really be what you're looking for. As a trainer, I realize that sometimes we're better off by putting aside all of the techno-gadgets and learning the underlying fundamentals. This might just be the thing for you.

[url="http://www.landfallnavigation.com/kcnb.html"]Beginner's Celestial Navigation Kit[/url]

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Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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3758 Posts

Response Posted - 04/08/2008 : 18:17:57

Are you looking for celestial navigation or piloting? If it is piloting, US Power Squadron has a broad selection. I learned celestial about 30 yrs ago with a few basic books and a cheap Davis learning sextant. If you start on the hard with sun sights using an artificial horizon, you'll get the basics fairly quickly. I think I started with a book called Sun Sight Sailing. The transition to doing sun sights on a small boat will be eye opening, be sure to have practiced a lot on land. Using the stars to find out how far you are from where you aren't (estimated position) is fun and far more challenging, but I found it impossible to practice it with an artificial horizon - you must have a real water horizon. If you come across an old aviation bubble sextant, that would be a big boost. Good luck, and if you get your position circle smaller than a few miles from the deck of a small boat you are a better man than me.

Edited by - Dave5041 on 04/08/2008 18:19:38

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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Response Posted - 04/08/2008 : 18:23:33

You know, I've got five or six sextants, including two Davis, one MK 15 (not much more than an overblown quadrant), and a MK 25. I've got a million books on celestial navigation, plus I'm a land surveyor, and I've never taken a sun shot with a sextant. It's embarrassing to admit. I keep wanting to take the course on celestial nav with [url="http://www.starpath.com/"]Starpath[/url], but never seem to find the time. Even when I was laid off for a few months I didn't do it, of course money wasn't exactly falling out of my ears then either. I'd also like to take a coastal nav class (which is much more practical, but celestial is cool).

Oh, Paul, to answer your original question, take a look at Starpath at the link above, they've got online courses you can take.

Edited by - delliottg on 04/08/2008 18:24:13

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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Response Posted - 04/08/2008 : 18:39:13

Paul, I'm under the impression that you have some coastal experience, but, if not, then I'd suggest you start with Coast Guard Auxiliary courses and especially US Power Squadron courses. The Power Squadron especially has basic to very advanced coastal navigation courses, and I think they sometimes teach celestial, if they have a member who's skilled enough to teach it. Very few people are using celestial as their primary method nowadays. Many navigate by GPS exclusively, while others only learn celestial as a backup method.

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britinusa
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Response Posted - 04/08/2008 : 19:45:19

That's a good start.

I have totally embraced the internet learning concept and always look for online courses if appropriate.

Specifically, I'm looking for instruction on calculating course taking wind, tide, etc. into consideration. Need to brush up on stuff I learned 45 years ago.

I'll look to the coasties and USPSqdn. Good directions, thanks all.

Paul

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 04/08/2008 : 20:22:31

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by britinusa
 That's a good start.

I have totally embraced the internet learning concept and always look for online courses if appropriate.

Specifically, I'm looking for instruction on calculating course taking wind, tide, etc. into consideration. Need to brush up on stuff I learned 45 years ago.

I'll look to the coasties and USPSqdn. Good directions, thanks all.

Paul
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Don't forget Gulf Stream current for that passage to Bimini.

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Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 04/08/2008 : 20:39:41

Paul -
I'm a member and an officer in the US Power Squadron (America's Boating Club(R)), and their courses can't be beat.

I took Piloting and am doing Advanced Piloting now, its the best.

Over time you can progress from coastal to blue water nav, and it is done gradually.

Become a member and get involved. Here are the local websites in SE FLA.

District 8
WebSite: www.uspsd8.com

Coral Ridge Sail & Power Squadron
WebSite: www.coralridgepowersquadron.org
Contact: Robert P. Redon, P
Phone: 954-943-5779
Email: rbrtredon3@aol.com
Location: Ft. Lauderdale, Florida
Centered around: FORT LAUDERDALE, FL 33308

Cutler Cove Power Squadron
WebSite: www.usps.org/localusps/cutlercove
Contact: Lt/C Clifford A. Root, SN
Phone: 305-238-4807
Email: clifroot@msn.com
Location: Miami, Kendall, Pinecrest, Cutler Ridge and Biscayne Bay
Centered around: MIAMI, FL 33176

Ft. Lauderdale Power Squadron
WebSite: www.flpowersquadron.org
Contact: Jim Yaeger
Phone: 561-703-5063
Email: lensteffy@aol.com
Location: Ft. Lauderdale, Fla
Centered around: FORT LAUDERDALE, FL 33315

Hollywood Power Squadron
Contact: Richard Pfenniger
Phone: 954-983-6214
Location: Hollywood
Centered around: HOLLYWOOD, FL 33020

Palm Beach Sail & Power Squadron
WebSite: www.usps.org/localusps/palm
Contact: William C Eldridge
Phone: 561-863-1461
Location: Palm Beach
Centered around: WEST PALM BEACH, FL 33407

Pompano Beach Power Squadron
WebSite: www.usps.org/localusps/pompano
Contact: Lt/C Ronald M. Ray, JN
Phone: 954-579-8000
Email: ronr@gate.net
Location: Pompano Beach
Centered around: POMPANO BEACH, FL 33064

Port St. Lucie Power Squadron
WebSite: www.portstlucieps.com/
Location: Port Saint Lucie
Centered around: PORT SAINT LUCIE, FL 34952

Sebastian Inlet Sail & Power Squadron
WebSite: www.sebastianinletps.com
Contact: Stf/C Nigel E. Hargreaves, SN
Phone: 772-388-0894
Email: euroneh@mindspring.com
Location: South Brevard County and North Indian River County
Centered around: SEBASTIAN, FL 32958

St. Lucie River Power Squadron
WebSite: www.usps.org/localusps/stlucieriver
Contact: Lt John E. Goebel, SN
Phone: 772-781-1098
Email: johnegoebel@cs.com
Location: Palm City
Centered around: STUART, FL 34997

Vero Beach Power Squadron
WebSite: verobeachps.org
Contact: Maureen A. Mathewson, JN
Phone: 772-388-1052
Email: mathewsonm@bellsouth.net
Location: Vero Beach
Centered around: VERO BEACH, FL 32963

Edited by - on

britinusa
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Response Posted - 04/08/2008 : 20:45:45

Thanks Bruce, Ft Lauderdale and Pompano Beach are local to us.

Paul

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bigelowp
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 04/08/2008 : 22:17:54

I echo a full support of the Power Squadron courses. All are excellent and if you wrk through from basic to Seamanship to Piloting, Advanced Piloting to navigator you will be far better able to handle ANY condition at sea (or lake) and . . . the best part is the comaraderie of each squadron. Check itout and enjoy the learing expereince!

Edited by - on

redviking
Master Marine Consultant

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1771 Posts

Response Posted - 04/09/2008 : 08:29:19

Our C25 initially did not have a depthsounder and we only had a handheld gps with little to no data other than green and red dots on the black and white screen. Let me tell you, my wife got really good at navigation long before we bought the necessary toys!

If you know how to read a paper chart, then the next time you go out physically plot your position at all times using the chart only. Any GPS data will confirm your position, but turn the plotter portion off. Just use lat and lon... Now, set a course and calculate your distance in say half an hour based on your speed and heading. Mark where you are now and use a pair of spreaders to calculate where you will be in half an hour. Mark that spot. Hold that course and then in half an hour see where you are. If you can do this, you can navigate just about everywhere.

Sten

DPO C25 #3220 "Zephyr", SR, FK
SV Lysistrata - C&C 39 - St. Augustine FL for flipping ever!!!!

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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5902 Posts

Response Posted - 04/09/2008 : 10:09:14

As Sten suggests, get a paper chart, dividers, parallel rules and an inexpensive hand bearing compass. Begin by using water tanks on shore to find your location. If you can see two at once, use the hand bearing compass to take a bearing to one of them and draw a line of position on your chart. Use the parallel rules and the compass rose on the chart to transfer the bearing from the hand bearing compass to the line of position on the chart. When you have a single line of position, you know that your position is somewhere along that line of position. Then take a bearing on the other water tank and draw another line of position on the chart. Your actual position will be at the intersection of the two lines. In addition to water tanks, other landmarks are marked on paper charts, such as tall tv or radio towers. Any of them can be used to find a line of position. If no landmarks of that type are available, you can draw a line of position from a point of land, or a navigational buoy or marker.

If you can read a chart, take a bearing to a landmark with a compass, and use that bearing to draw a line of position on a paper chart, you can navigate coastal waters almost anywhere. After that, you'll want to practice, learn the meanings of all the symbols on a chart, and learn the math formulas for calculating distance, speed and time. Those formulas are even easy for one who is math challenged, so don't be afraid of them.

Edited by - Steve Milby on 04/09/2008 10:14:30

redviking
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 04/09/2008 : 14:33:53

Aaahhh, my C&C brother is correct of course, I just tried to simplify it for a first run. On Lysistrata we plot our course offshore every hour such that if all of the electronics failed or GW turns off the skies we would still be able to do a DR. Dead Reckoning for those who don't know. What that means is that if we know we were somewhere at 14:00, and our course is 253 degrees and we are doing 6 knots, we can guestimate where we are regardless of fog or whatever. Captain Milby is describing coastal rage plotting using charted data like towers and tanks. Also a very valuable skill should all you electronics get fried on your way home. Sail up to St. Aug Paul, I'll take you out with nothing but a chart and get you back in one piece. easey peasey... Chapmans is essential reading and I have a video of John Rousmanierre showing the same program if you want me to send you a copy. Way better than the I-net...

sten

Edited by - on

Bruce Baker
Captain

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402 Posts

Response Posted - 04/21/2008 : 15:09:41

I took the Power Squadron's Advanced Piloting course, and I found that it met my needs nicely. My recollection is that the local squadron was not offering the regular piloting course, but it looked easy, so I jumped into the advanced course.

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britinusa
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Response Posted - 04/21/2008 : 21:03:31

Our last trip out, we left the GPS behind. The Knotmeter was working as was depth. I have a pair of binocs with built in compass and we always carry charts.

As we motored out of the marina channel, I set up a course on the chart to our destination, asked peggy to turn on that heading after passing the last marker and maintain a set speed of 4knots. I had not even hanked the sails, so the plan was to motor to the anchorage. I kept our DR position up to date as we crossed the bay taking bearings on known landmarks (the nuc power station and elliot key harbor and boca-chita lighthouse). Peggy did a great job of staying on the compass bearing and maintaining speed (not that difficult under motor). We arrived at the anchorage from the right direction and on time.

We used DR navigation for the rest of the weekend even when we could see our destination.

I'm looking to be more comfortable at DR when we are out of site of land (on our planned bimini cruise).

Paul

Edited by - on

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 04/22/2008 : 00:02:56

Paul -
A good thing to get accustomed to for piloting is to figure in the set and drift of the current, especially out in THE STREAM , the Gulf Stream and your leeway.

Whenever you are crossing a current, or experiencing leeway while reaching or beating, it is good to take a few bearings to get a fix before you're out of sight of land so you can factor these errors into your DR.

When sailing with my GPS, I'm always amazed by the amount of error introduced by wind and current factors. It can be up to 15 degrees in some cases between your heading and your course made good.

This is not to say you shouldn't use DR techniques, but its always good to check - and double check - especially when just getting comfortable with it.

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Arlyn Stewart
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Response Posted - 04/23/2008 : 07:16:51

Paul has revealed an extremely helpful tactic for the skipper as an aid in keeping the crew involved in and enjoying sailing and cruising. From my experience, almost all of my crew have loved getting involved in navigation for a cruise. While I do the preplanning and have waypoints and routes set ahead of time... and have those well marked on paper chart and programmed into the gps, I usually turn the crew loose to implement (with a slight bit of over-the-shoulder observation) and they seem to really get into it and get far more from it than simply something to keep them active.

btw, one of the simplest and best nav tools that someone offered over on the Trailer Sailor forum was to set a waypoint on the center of the compass rose of each chart in the book. Name it for the page number of the chart. Then it is simply a matter of punching GOTO for that page number and the course and distance to that rose will be displayed, which will very quickly then plot a close fix. It is faster and easier than trying to read lat and lon on the edge of a chart.

Edited by - on

Happy D
Admiral

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921 Posts

Response Posted - 04/23/2008 : 17:22:39

http://www.irbs.com/bowditch/

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Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 04/23/2008 : 23:06:03

close your eyes and trust the Force, Luke

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