Association Forum - Swapping GMT for Mecca time

Assn Members Area · Join

Home.

Association Forum

Ships Store

Cruising

Racing

Technical Tips

Photo Gallery - New

Boat Search - Updated

Manuals & Brochures

Swap Meet

Links

Officer Flag Line & Staff

Bylaws & Constitution

Members Area

Join the Association

Notice:
The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.

Association Forum

Username:	Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

All Forums

Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

General Sailing Forum

Swapping GMT for Mecca time

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Author

Topic

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

Member Avatar

USA
4479 Posts

Initially Posted - 04/21/2008 : 23:22:12

http://www.badastronomy.com/bablog/2007/01/16/mecca-lecca-hi/

Think of the infrastructure that would have to change to make this work. GPS, GloNASS, Galileo, charts, ephemera, etc.

David
C-250 Mainsheet Editor

Sirius Lepak
1997 C-250 WK TR #271 --Seattle area Port Captain --

Edited by - on

Renzo
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
621 Posts

Response Posted - 04/22/2008 : 08:54:07

Makes as much sense as having your face covered when taking a drivers licence photo. Or requiring the vast majority of people in the USA to "press 1 for english" Oh wait! We do that now.

Edited by - on

pwhallon
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
694 Posts

Response Posted - 04/22/2008 : 09:00:51

how-a-bout?

MECCA-GODZILLA TIME

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 04/22/2008 : 10:12:29

It is certainly true that Greenwich Time was capricious and Anglocentric. The reference probably should be moved to the mid Atlantic Ridge, or actually mid Pacific from a Geo-Political sense. That one guy was right though, they do have a magic rock in MECCA and that's as good a reason as any.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 04/22/2008 : 10:46:39

Numbers from the Arabs, letters from the Greeks, months from the Romans, time zones from the British, Quarter Pounders from the Americans...

Edited by - on

stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

1608 Posts

Response Posted - 04/22/2008 : 10:54:12

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Abd Al-Baset Al-Sayyid: When British colonialism or the British kingdom were in control, and it was “an empire on which the sun never sets,” it imposed Greenwich Mean Time.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

The British did not impose their system on anyone, except the Royal Navy. Everyone else that used it, or uses it, does so of their own choice.
I, for example live on Mike time. Its coffee time when I say it is, its time for a beer when the hockey game starts, its spring when the boat is launched, its winter when the boat is taken out of the water. Simple.

Edited by - on

Renzo
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
621 Posts

Response Posted - 04/23/2008 : 11:17:50

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by stampeder
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Abd Al-Baset Al-Sayyid: When British colonialism or the British kingdom were in control, and it was “an empire on which the sun never sets,” it imposed Greenwich Mean Time.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

The British did not impose their system on anyone, except the Royal Navy. Everyone else that used it, or uses it, does so of their own choice.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Absolutely right! The British did not impose anything on the world, they gave the world a way to calculate longitude. And the first practical chronometer that allowed that calculations at sea was invented by an Englishman, John Harrison. (Who, by-the-way, is one of the most interesting and most under-credited inventors in history, look him up sometime. He was shunned by history because he was a "uneducated", commoner who was not part of the academic intelligentsia at he time, including Issac Newton, who were unable to come up with a workable solution to the problem of east-west navigation). So the Brits used Greenwich as the base for their calculations because that was where the ships started from. It makes way more sense than relating a navigational baseline to a gravitational anomaly or a magic rock, somewhere in the middle of the desert.
I apologize in advance for the rant.

Edited by - on

ilnadi
Captain

Members Avatar

452 Posts

Response Posted - 04/23/2008 : 11:47:41

with all due respect, this is getting offensive and I'd like it to be gone.

do we really feel the need to perpetuate the xenophobic rant from badastronomy on a half-baked idea seemingly based on nothing?

Edited by - on

stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

1608 Posts

Response Posted - 04/23/2008 : 13:36:02

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">with all due respect, this is getting offensive and I'd like it to be gone.

do we really feel the need to perpetuate the xenophobic rant from badastronomy on a half-baked idea seemingly based on nothing?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I think we're all treating it as a joke, because it is a joke.

Edited by - on

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 04/23/2008 : 23:46:19

I disgress and find nothing in these words to be offensive. Furthermore I do not support the concept of claiming a right to be more equal than others. However I must admit that I do find the request of removing this information somewhat offensive.

Edited by - on

redviking
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1771 Posts

Response Posted - 04/24/2008 : 06:25:55

As someone who has been edited for comments found offensive to the politically challenged

, I thought this was going quite well. I'm glad I decided not to post pictures of my new Mecca "center of the universe" sailors Burkha foul weather gear! Hey! it works and as a bonus - no possibilty of skin cancer! Admittedly, there is just a hint of an underlying thread, but nothing to in my opinion force the removal of the topic. And let's face it, Obama bin Laden isn't going to be offended 'cuz he isn't here thinking about getting or sailing a C25. He is trying to take over his country!

Furthermore, did I see the words capricious and anglocentric? Nicely done.

Heck, the Vikings "discovered" the New World long after it had already been discovered by the "natives", long before it was "discovered" again. So I'm on Greenland time myself. Makes those waypoint calculations just a little bit more fun. Gotta put some foam padding on my helmet horns though, just punched a hole in one of the cushions.

sten

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 04/24/2008 : 08:20:55

Sten I have the proud honor of being kicked off of more BBS' than anyone else in the cyberworld. (Just use the word French in any sentence and see where I go!) This goes back to my first 2400 baud modem. Through my years on this forum I have received half a dozen hate mails and have one blog out there set up for the sole purpose of denigrating me. Many people have different comfort zones and it is impossible to know why... but they are entitled to them, after all they are trying to get through life just like we are. Nadi, sorry any of this bothers you but the rest of us just don't see it. Remember most of us are in the last couple of weeks of being on the hard and will quit trying to find things to talk about soon... 'cause we'll be sailin'

Posted as one of the moderators. (How ironic is that!)

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 04/24/2008 : 08:39:43

I'll step over to Ilnadi's side... This is tip-toeing along the edge of making fun of a religion--one that has made it clear to the Danes, among others, that it is a little sensitive about such things. And remember, we're on the WWW. Let's switch to Pope-jokes.

Edited by - on

redviking
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1771 Posts

Response Posted - 04/24/2008 : 09:02:11

Quote: "I'll step over to Ilnadi's side... This is tip-toeing along the edge of making fun of a religion--one that has made it clear to the Danes, among others, that it is a little sensitive about such things. And remember, we're on the WWW. Let's switch to Pope-jokes."

Agreed, hence my comment about the under thread. If Obama were to read this it is possible that Al Kaida - note spelling to throw them off - might target C25's and C250's. I am Danish and while I think the cartoons were a bad idea, I respect a country of 5.4 mil who are not afraid - typically... We sent a submarine to help find Saddam!

So - why did the Pope not want to go sailing on a C25? His bright little designer red shoes would mark the deck!

sten

Edited by - on

Renzo
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
621 Posts

Response Posted - 04/24/2008 : 09:55:05

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">So - why did the Pope not want to go sailing on a C25? His bright little designer red shoes would mark the deck!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Hey, are you implying that the Pope, the leader of the Roman Cathloic Church, is afraid of anything? Are you also impuning the glorious history of the Italian shoe industry? Italians are a peace loving, happy-go-lucky people who have suffered enough denigration at the hands of the rest of the word. Jokes about the way-a we speak-a da english and organized crime (as opposed to the rest of the world's un-organized crime)which have been around for a long time are getting hard to take. So I would appreciate it if you would lay off the Pope jokes and all things Italian. Or somebody might take out a contract on sombody - Capice!

Edited by - on

ilnadi
Captain

Members Avatar

452 Posts

Response Posted - 04/24/2008 : 09:56:01

thank you all for the frank answers and pointing out where I am not as correct as I'd like to be

.

I feel like I've done my job of pointing out that we are not living isolated from the world. Every conversation needs a devil's advocate and this conversation's is nadi

(mis-quoting Franck - a.k.a. Martin Short- from Father of the Bride).

we should not stop saying things because we are afraid of the consequences, we should stop saying things after we consider if they are wrong to say (are you happy with your karma?).

Edited by - on

stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

1608 Posts

Response Posted - 04/24/2008 : 10:29:29

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I'll step over to Ilnadi's side... This is tip-toeing along the edge of making fun of a religion<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I for one, was not tip-toeing around making fun of any religion. I was making light of bad science and the abuse of history.
However, as a lapsed Polish Catholic I do feel a certain amount of inherited self-righteousness in making fun of religion head-on, toes up to and over the line.
If the Pope (the good one, the Polish one, John-Paul) were to go sailing, he would do so as the accomplished athlete that he was and he would not sail a C25, he would probably go sailing in an Olympics class Laser so that he could compete with people from all walks of life. And yes, he would wear those red shoes but he would have non-marking soles.
And as far as Osama Bin there done that Laden, I see him as more of a powerboater.
As this is a digression of monumental proportion, I must also insist that it was not the Vikings, nor the Chinese or even that brave Irish Monk that found the new world. It was a Polish kid and his dog. The dog was ashore first.

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

Members Avatar

USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 04/24/2008 : 10:55:12

I posted this mostly for the humor. However, I didn't mean to impugn anyone's sensibilities or accomplishments. Certainly there's no faulting the Arabic contribution to navigation, from the simple kamal to the astrolabe & astronomical clock. However, while they understood the problem of longitude at sea, they never solved it, they were generally latitude sailors. Sail down a line of longitude till their kamal told them they were at the right latitude, and run east or west to their destination. This kept them out to sea, safe from shore, pirates, and what have you. Since they never solved the problem of longitude at sea (they did on land), their claim for moving GMT (which hasn't been used BTW since 1972) is fairly specious. However, maybe they do have a claim based on their land navigation methods, dunno.

As far as Mecca being "at the center of the earth", if we take that to mean at zero declination, it's not. Mecca's currently at about 2Â° 50' East. Since the north magnetic pole moves constantly, for Mecca to be at "the center of the earth" with respect to declination, it too would have to move. Here's an animation showing how declination has changed since the 17th century:

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 04/24/2008 : 11:21:52

Wow!, I'd imagine it'd be purdy kewl to actually understand all that stuff!

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 04/24/2008 : 17:18:18

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by stampeder
 [quote]...And as far as Osama Bin there done that Laden, I see him as more of a powerboater...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">HEY!!! Hey!!!

I see him sculling.

Great graphic, David--I wonder how they got back to 1600...

Edited by - on

stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

1608 Posts

Response Posted - 04/24/2008 : 18:31:45

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dave Bristle
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by stampeder
 [quote]...And as far as Osama Bin there done that Laden, I see him as more of a powerboater...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">HEY!!! Hey!!!

I see him sculling.

Great graphic, David--I wonder how they got back to 1600...
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Of course you know that you are honorably excluded from all negative references to powerboaters. Just like that guy two summers ago on the jetski that stopped by my anchored boat, pulled two cold beers out of his cooler, gave me one, and sat and yakked about what a beautiful boat I had and wasn't it a shame that jet skis were allowed on the lake at all.
And Osama Bin Whosis, cave dweller, least favorite of 50 sons...sculler of stone boat.

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

Members Avatar

USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 04/24/2008 : 18:32:01

Here's a pretty good article on [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_declination"]magnetic declination[/url], as well as the original graphic (I didn't find it here, I was searching other sites, guess they stole it from Wikipedia).

Here's a series of [url="http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/geomag/faqgeom.shtml"]FAQs that explain some of this stuff[/url] as well as how they are able to tell how the magnetic field has changed over time. Click on "Will the magnetic field reverse?" question & drill down a bit to read about it.

Edited by - on

Topic

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Jump To:

Association Forum

Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.