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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Gin Pole Problem

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stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Response Posted - 04/11/2008 : 14:56:30

I'm not an engineer, so I can't say categorically what the answer is to the fulcrum point,leverage point, hinge point question.
What I can say, is that an A-Frame makes this a very simple and easy job, and Randy's use of a Gin-pole has somehow thrown the Geometry off.
What is key to this puzzle is that the top of the mast has to be pulled forward to the upright position. The gin pole should be completing a triangle that assists in the effort. If you were standing on a 25' ladder at the bow of the boat, you'd be able to pull the top of the mast straight towards yourself with the forestay or the jib halyard.
ONe of the reasons I stayed with Hank-on sails is that I can use the forestay with the A-Frame to complete the triangle, it just makes the whole equation simpler.
Randy is a very smart guy and I'm sure he'll come up with an elegant answer.

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 04/11/2008 : 20:23:32

I use the boom as a gin pole, it fits into a plastic casting attached a few inches above the foot of the mast. I run the halyard to the boom - it has four loosely fitted tangs on the end - , main sheet from the boom to the stemhead fitting, and lines from the boom to each forward chainplate. I initially lift and stabilize the mast laterally while the admiral hauls the mainsheet. If she can do it with modest effort, I think you need look at where your gin pole is attached to the mast. As suggested by others, I think it should be as close to the pivot point as possible. I do keep the mast bolt loose until the forestay is attached. That being said, I am currently building an A-frame that I think will be easier and safer.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 04/11/2008 : 21:41:46

Wow! Thanks for all the ideas and links.

I spent some time at the boat today (bottom painted and topsides waxed!) and I am inclined to think that:

-My overall plan was fine
-The attachment to the mast should be lower
-Even with the transom mast crutch the mast lays fairly flat and, even with the leverage of the main sheet, I needed more initial oomph than just pulling on the main sheet.
-The gin pole actually did not bend. What bent, slightly, was a 1" aluminum tube that connect the two main 1 1/2" tubes. I need to replace that.
-My gin pole was not set up right. The connectors for the jib halyard and main sheet were port-starboard instead of fore-aft. That put a twisting force on the gin pole and, I think, led to the bending of that 1" connector tube.
-I will add a winch to the gin pole like the guy on that C22 link did and also what Arlyn did. That way the Admiral can winch while I give a shoulder to starting the mast up.

I believe that all was clear and nothing was stuck but I do appreciate the feedback that that could have been an issue. I will be very attentive to that.

By the way I believe that the mast on the 250 is more forward than on the 25. This means that the gin pole must be shorter (for instance not a boom or 12' A frame). Mine is 8' 6" which is the length of the Catalina supplied gin pole on early 250s. Shorter=less leverage.

We are going to cruise again in the San Juans (actually the Canadian Gulf Islands) in May so I need to get this working. When we pull the boat for the trip we'll try again with a modified setup.
-

Edited by - on

Oksky
1st Mate

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Canada
40 Posts

Response Posted - 04/13/2008 : 20:22:24

So Saturday we went and did the official mast raising for the first time on our Catalina 25. After reading everything I could from everyone on here I was a bit apprehensive of what I was getting myself into. Less than an hour from the sound of the starters pistol we had the mast erect, wooohooooo. This is the system we used and it went soooooo smoothly (after we moved the back stay from the swim ladder

) Here are a couple diagrams of how we did it. We used the jib halyard to the pole, a block and tackle attacked to the anchor roller mount and then to the halyard winch on top of the cabin. I was so surprised at how easy it went up.

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ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 04/13/2008 : 21:42:48

>"first inclination was correct - and that the gin pole needs to be further up the mast."

Delliottg is correct... a gin pole should attach at the mast base. Any other attachment point tends to bend the mast into the deck.

Starting with a 'mast up' (an extendable transom support) two of us have always been able to put the mast up easily without a gin pole. Solo... you have to rig something.

1) lead jib halyard round a block at the bow pulpit, lead back to a winch.
2) two people start the mast up together
3) both walk forward to companionway, lifting the mast as they go
4) one person holds mast (arms above head while the second person secures line on a winch and starts cranking.. brings the line up tight.
5) person lifting the mast steps up onto coachroof with assistance of the other person winching away.

My biggest worry has always been controlling side-sway as the mast goes from 45 to vertical.

Note: I always raise the mast with ONLY the aft lowers attached. This greatly reduces the chance of tangles, cocked fittings, snarls, and other cable 'gotchas'. Once the mast goes up with a tight jib sheet or the forestay is attached, the mast will be stable. Then mess with your other hardware.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 04/14/2008 : 07:33:41

Good job Mike. Nice diagram.

Edited by - on

ilnadi
Captain

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452 Posts

Response Posted - 04/14/2008 : 09:24:02

I put up the mast yesterday using the boom as a gin pole, 3 people (plus a gentlemen who came running when we snagged a lazyjack pulley on the dock). I was plannign to tale pictures once the mast was supported by the haul/gin pole but wind picked up and we had to get it done. I'll draw some pictures and add notes too; it'll be very similar to the oens above. As far as side-sway at 45-deg (espacially in the water with gusting wind <15?>, small waves and people walking on deck) our remedy was one on the winch plus one on each side pulling on the stays. It worked nicely until the aforementioned snag had to be released by aforementioned gentleman)

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The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.