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Big waters - swing keel up or down?

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britinusa
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Initially Posted - 04/14/2008 : 19:19:44

We motored back to Black point marina today through 20+ knot winds from the west pushing lazy 3' water our way.

I kept the swing keel up, thinking that I'd rather have it up and not clunking around than down but offering some stability.

We really didn't notice any loss of stability, but Peggy suggested that we ask the forum.

Do you keep it up or let it hang down.

Paul (n-pegs)

Joint Decision. (Sold)
PO C250WB 2005 Sail # 841.

Moved up to C34 Eximius

Updated August 2015

Edited by - on

John Russell
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Response Posted - 04/14/2008 : 19:23:45

Were you able to judge how much leeway you were making? I'd think that the CB down would always be the preferred position unless specifically contra-indicated (e.g. beaching, skinny water, etc.). These are more questions than answers obviously. But, given the high freeboard of our boats, I'd imagine they'd be something of a "Sideways Sally" if the wind is on the beam even when motoring.

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britinusa
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Response Posted - 04/14/2008 : 20:09:50

John, we really didn't notice any leeway as we were headed directly into wind.

Paul

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dlucier
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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
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Response Posted - 04/14/2008 : 22:06:19

Paul,

When sailing with it up, you might have stability issues with a swing keeled boat since it has the ballast in the keel, but on a centerboarder like yours, as John pointed out, I think you'd mainly experience excessive leeway.

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Nautiduck
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Response Posted - 04/14/2008 : 23:20:21

Paul, Dude it's a SAILBOAT. Tilt that motor up and sail into those winds!

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Russ.Johnson
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Response Posted - 04/15/2008 : 00:39:49

Paul,
I have sailed and motored in those conditions and I always keep the centerboard down.

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britinusa
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Response Posted - 04/15/2008 : 08:32:17

Randy, believe me, I really wanted to sail! Spent all Day Friday putting the boat together, launching and motoring to the anchorage. 2 hour sail Sunday, and the weather turned on the rough side, so we spent the night in Elliott Key Harbor got slapped around all night even in a slip! Weather channel predicted worsening conditions so we decided to haul out.
Peggy has a nasty pulled leg muscle/ligament and is hobling around, it was brave of her to go out this weekend, I just didn't want to stretch her bravery toooooo far. The wind was directly out of the Marina channel so it would have meant tacking all the way across the bay in those conditions. Plus we had the 2+ hours of derig after the haul out.
We ended up hauling the boat, washing her down and then parking in the staging area. Walked (gimpily) to the marina grill for a late lunch before proceeding with the prep for trailering.

A lot of effort for a 2 hour sail, but they were two great hours! We reached from Coons point over to homestead on 50% of our 110gib and a single reefed main, boat balanced beautifully and we both enjoyed the reach. Turned up when the gust blew hard, we were making about 5knots with the wind coming from the SSW, it started to turn so we went about and enjoyed a long reach over to Elliot key, we hit 6.2knots several times (water speed, no gps

) The sound the boat makes when she pulls on those sheets is shear joy. Going light handed on the wheel anticipating the swells, just awesome. I really didn't mind the long work short sail because that short sail was one of the best.

Oh! Yes, we drop the keel as soon as we get into 6.6' when sailing.
Paul.

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piseas
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Response Posted - 04/15/2008 : 14:14:46

Paul, I don't have swing keel now but Piseas I, did. And I would always have keel down unless coming in close to shore, etc. I definitely felt the difference with it up like the others have mentioned.
What was your concern about leaving it down, other than the clunking. I remember that sound well.
Steve A

Edited by - piseas on 04/15/2008 14:15:58

britinusa
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Response Posted - 04/16/2008 : 06:04:35

You're right Steve, it's the thought of the keel clunking away for nearly 2 hours. I felt that raised the keel would be pretty stable, the fact that we were headed into wind was the point. Off wind there's very little clunking as the forces on the keel keep it snug to one side.

Paul

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lewalskim
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Response Posted - 04/16/2008 : 06:44:54

Paul,
In calm water, I normally motor with the CB up except when entering or leaving my marina, then I drop it slightly. If I have a cross wind and the seas are choppy, I motor with it down by letting out about one to two feet of CB line; enough to keep the boat tracking nicely but not too much drag. I seldom, if ever, let the board all the way down even when sailing close hauled. I adjust the board depth according to conditions.

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dlucier
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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 04/16/2008 : 07:51:49

Paul,

I know this may be a case of semantics, but there is a distinct difference between a swing keel and a centerboard.

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Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 04/16/2008 : 07:53:54

Paul, you keep disorienting me into thinking I'm reading a C-25 forum thread... (You know what they say: "...sometimes age comes alone.") You have a centerboard, not a swing keel. (Be glad for that.)

Edit: Nuts--Don pressed Submit before me.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 04/16/2008 20:07:37

piseas
Former Treasurer

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Response Posted - 04/16/2008 : 16:11:58

I am gonna assume, if Paul has a centerboard and not swing keel, that the centerboard swings!

If its a centerboard then its a water ballast?--not a "swing keel" which is the ballast, like my old Catalina 22 had, that clunked.
I think I just confused myself.

Steve A

Edited by - piseas on 04/16/2008 16:56:46

britinusa
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Response Posted - 04/16/2008 : 20:25:42

It's only in the center when it's down or is it only centered when it's up?

On the Catalinayachts.com site they refer to it as a 'board' not a 'keel'
But they refer to the boat as the 'Water ballast' model.
In our Owners pages we refer to it as a centerboard model (c250 waterballast only)

But there is no getting around it.... It swings!

Paul

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dlucier
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Response Posted - 04/17/2008 : 08:17:35

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by britinusa
 It's only in the center when it's down or is it only centered when it's up?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

It's a centerboard because its centered on the hull and it pivots as opposed to a leeboard which is mounted to the side of the boat. A daggerboard is centered, but moves up and down.

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piseas
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Response Posted - 04/17/2008 : 15:40:07

If I am not mistaken, MacGregors have daggerboards that go up and down.
Steve A

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Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 04/17/2008 : 19:40:38

...and it's not a "swing keel" because a "keel" on a "keelboat" is its primary ballast. A centerboarder has its ballast elsewhere--in a water tank, in a stub keel (around the centerboard trunk), or hiked out on the rail. The C-250-WB has enough weight in the centerboard (100#?) to pull it down and keep it there--otherwise, a fiberglass centerboard tends to swing back up. The C-25 swing keel is 1500# of cast iron.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 04/17/2008 19:43:30

At Ease
Admiral

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Response Posted - 04/21/2008 : 17:56:51

Down.

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