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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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I broke my engine! (Update)

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delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
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Response Posted - 05/21/2008 : 18:43:06

I don't know which might work in salt water better, but FWIW, I've got a Tohatsu, which we'll be using in the Puget Sound.

I do however have an idea that might allow you to flush your engine on your mooring. It'll require some pre-planning to be able to do, and the ability to hump 40lbs of water onto the boat, but here it is: Attach a short hose to a 5 gallon water container like the ones Coleman sells, but a five gallon bucket could be made to work just as well. Create some sort of fitting for your boat hook that'll let you reach your engine's water intakes with the muffs, or simply paddle around in your dink to get them on. Set the water container on the transom and open the tap, start the engine, pull the fuel line, and let it run out of fuel while watching it pee. After the first few times, you'll know whether you're going to run out of water or fuel first, and adjust accordingly. I estimate that you'll run out of fuel first simply because I've set a five gallon bucket under the pee port and only filled it about 1/3 of the way before the fuel ran out. Assuming you've got a decent seal on the muffs, this should work reasonably well. Obviously be very careful the first few times to see how it goes, you don't want to run your engine w/o coolant either...

I'm going to be using a modified version of this in my slip, I just won't need the water container because I have a hose handy.

Edited by - on

SCnewbie
Navigator

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166 Posts

Response Posted - 05/21/2008 : 19:24:51

That is a good idea. I should be able to do it ok as well. Our dingy stays on a trailer at the house so filling and loading isn't an issue. I will try that for sure on the new motor.

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atgep
Master Marine Consultant

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1009 Posts

Response Posted - 05/21/2008 : 19:46:18

I prefer the choke lever on the tohasu/nissan and it was a big factor in buying one.

The automatic choke/idle jet is problamatic on some hondas due to water droplets not being big enough to pass through the jet. I think the Nissan carb is not as complicated and therefore perhaps a bit more reliable.

3 vs 5 yrs is a toss up. Most major warranty issues will crop up right away. Then these engines are reliable for 1000 hours or more before stuff starts wearing out. How much do you use it? I do all my own servicing and the warranty is more of a hassle unless it blows up!
Just my 2 cts.

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Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 05/21/2008 : 20:18:27

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by delliottg
 ...I estimate that you'll run out of fuel first simply because I've set a five gallon bucket under the pee port and only filled it about 1/3 of the way before the fuel ran out.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Shaky assumption, because most of the water doesn't exit through the "pee port"--most of it generally comes out around the exhaust port, which on some engines is around the prop, and on others is elsewhere on the lower unit. The "pee port" is just there for visual conformation that you have water pressure. If it clogs, as it often does, that isn't conclusive evidence that no water is flowing through.

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delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 05/21/2008 : 21:07:08

Yes, it is a shaky assumption, hence my warning to watch it carefully. As long as it's peeing, you can be reasonably assured that it's cooling properly, but maybe not actually flushing with the fresh water, it could be sucking in salt water around the ears. It might be worth taping the ears onto the shaft to improve the seal or using an auxiliary clamp.

It's an untested (by me) idea and a field expedient method of flushing your engine, and not perfect.

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 05/21/2008 : 21:36:34

A variation involves a container--it could be a large bucket or even a garbage bag. Tilt the engine up, put the container around the lower unit, tilt the engine back down, put a hose in the container, fill it with fresh water, start the engine, and let run for a while. Somebody sells a semi-rigid poly bucket for this purpose... a garbage bag might be a little risky--you don't want it to get sucked against the water inlet (if that's possible)--but I've seen them used.

Honda and Yamaha have fresh water flush ports--does Tohatsu/Nissan?

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delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 05/21/2008 : 22:45:05

Tohatsu/Nissan does have a flushing port on the starboard side of the shaft, but they no longer provide you with a flushing adapter. They now recommend using ear muff type flushing adapters instead.

Edited by - delliottg on 05/21/2008 22:51:10

britinusa
Web Editor

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5404 Posts

Response Posted - 05/22/2008 : 05:53:02

I just tie a rag around the lower unit vents. The mufflers never did stop all flow at the vents. And our first Tohatsu didn't come with the adaptor, it's such a simple inexpensive item I'm not sure why they don't supply one. (perhaps they are reading this

)

Paul

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britinusa
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5404 Posts

Response Posted - 05/28/2008 : 06:29:21

Update: 5/28/2008
We removed the engine from the boat. Removed the cylinder head and the crank was able to turn. Cleaned out the cylinder head, rotated the crank a few times. Put it all back together and started it up!

Phew!!!!! It ran sweet after a couple of timing adjustments (we had removed the cam shaft belt as well as the cylinder head.)

Several points.
Very easy to work on, and not a complex engine!

At present the electric starter is not working. Don't know yet if it's a supply issue or if the start motor is dead.

Paul

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piseas
Former Treasurer

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USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 05/28/2008 : 10:34:53

Paul so the engine you broke got fixed? Very nice, well done. So did you cancel order for new engine?
Steve A

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britinusa
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5404 Posts

Response Posted - 05/28/2008 : 11:04:42

The new engine is somewhere within a 4 mile radius right now.. anticipation is high.

Our decision on the purchase option v the repair option was assisted by The Admiral (OSHA) and I agree, dont' take the risk.

Someone will buy the engine and it will do them fine, but for us, we would rather pay the money than pay the doc for stress tests!

Jesse Camp just called me and mentioned the 'diodes' may be an issue as we pull started the motor in the garage with no battery attached before we tried the electrtic start. We're looking into that possibly being the reason the engine didn't start last night in the garage when connected to the Truck battery!

Paul

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atgep
Master Marine Consultant

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1009 Posts

Response Posted - 05/28/2008 : 14:42:08

There is a fuse under the cowl for the starter. It should have blown if you tried the starter with it siezed up.

I have been using the tiny tach on mine since new and love having a tachometer/hourmeter. I use the tach to set rpm for cruise speed and also do a max power check/idle check knowing what rpms I should see. i figure if something is starting to die, hopefully it will show up with reduced rpms. I picked it up from a mower shop and is still going after 3 yrs strapped to the engine.

www.tinytach.com

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delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 05/28/2008 : 14:45:14

Which model of the Tiny Tach did you use? I'm guessing the TT226NR-1C? Are you using it on a Tohatsu? I'd love to have this little gizmo on my engine!

Edited by - delliottg on 05/28/2008 14:46:48

britinusa
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Response Posted - 05/28/2008 : 15:31:07

That tinytach looks to be a great monitoring tool and at only $37.00 a good price.

Any pics of your installation?

Jesse Camp is in the data sensing field, I hope he reads this and jumps in with his thoughts.

Paul

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piseas
Former Treasurer

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USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 05/28/2008 : 15:40:36

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by britinusa
 The new engine is somewhere within a 4 mile radius right now.. Paul
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Paul, did you put a GPS on that engine!

Steve A

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atgep
Master Marine Consultant

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1009 Posts

Response Posted - 05/28/2008 : 19:33:34

Here is my install of the tiny tach. I zip-tied it to the handle. There are 2 wires. The ground and sense wire. I used the coil pack bolt for the ground and the sense wire wraps around one of the spark plug wires. I fed both of the wires into the engine through the gasket the starter wires pass through.

I usually set a certain rpm's for cruise and also check WOT for max rpm. On mine the idle is 950, WOT 4920, max cruise is 3500(1/3 GPH)@5.5 kts.

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britinusa
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Response Posted - 05/28/2008 : 20:47:44

WOT ???

Paul

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atgep
Master Marine Consultant

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1009 Posts

Response Posted - 05/28/2008 : 21:17:44

Wide open throttle. In the planes we call it maximum power.

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delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 05/28/2008 : 21:38:19

I've ordered mine. It should be interesting to see the differences in WOT RPM with my high thrust & regular props.

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atgep
Master Marine Consultant

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1009 Posts

Response Posted - 05/28/2008 : 22:41:59

What started the whole tiny tach thing for me was a hunch that the stock prop was to big for the cat-25. I just felt the engine was too bogged down. Rated WOT is 5000-6000 rpm. With the stock prop it was 4100 rpm...hmm I was right. I then switched to the smallest prop at the time and rpm went to 4920. The engine felt smoother and was much more responsive.
When the 4 blade prop came out I offered to test them and return but was told no thanks. I am still curious how the performance compares and even more curious how much thrust is puts out.

Tom.

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