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Beating gas prices

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John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/21/2008 : 22:42:14

I had a "light bulb" moment the other day while filling the truck on a trip. A while ago, 89 Octane gas was 10 cents/gallon more expensive and that was enough of a difference to keep me from using 89 Octane since the Mfg. suggests 87 anyway. But now, 10 cents is a small percentage difference in price. So, I thought I'd try an experiment.

I started with the assumption that higher octane equals more energy per gallon. If all other variables are the same, this should result in an increase in gas mileage and potentially a savings in cost per mile even though the cost per gallon is higher. I.e., better mileage.

Well, after one tankful, my hypothesis was confirmed.

I know good science requires the experiment to be repeatable but, I'm encouraged by the half cent per mile improvement BEFORE adjusting for the 15 cent inflation that occurred in the intervening 2 days.

Now, here's my question for the engine gurus out there. Since Ford suggests 87 Octane, what undesired consequences are there to putting higher octane gas in the tank? Am I doing damage that will negate my cost savings?

John Russell
1999 C250 SR/WK #410
Bay Village, Ohio
Sailing Lake Erie
Don't Postpone Joy!

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3467 Posts

Response Posted - 05/22/2008 : 05:41:10

I have never heard of using a higher octane in an auto that normally does not require it as having any negative effect, it just may not have any benefits except for what you are finding out from your experiments. From what I have read, many auto professionals mention as long as your car does not knock, you can use the lowest octane (to save initial gas costs) and that has been mentioned in various auto guru columns that they generally have in the Sunday newspapers. Though, these days there are a number of autos (ie. My '98 Honda Prelude) that are recommended by the mfr to run on 91 or higher octane for performance reasons which I believe the electronics somehow are involved. I have never used lower than 91 Octane in my Prelude but believe if I was to do so, it may not knock but just would not get the whatever extra performance benefits that could be derived - The electronics believe then default to basic settings (fuel mixture, etc).

The thing is that mostly from laziness, if I bring my lawnmower gas can or the outboard gas tank with me when I fill up my Prelude, I start the gas pump on the 91 or higher octane fuel and then fill up the portable gas tank and my auto with the same juice rather than switch to the different octanes. (I do add the Startron or Stabil into the outboard gas can as a normal practice but I do that at home not at the pump.)

Edited by - OLarryR on 05/22/2008 05:42:12

cat1951
Admiral

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USA
636 Posts

Response Posted - 05/22/2008 : 07:08:17

For me it was a completely different decision, and admittedly maybe not for all. About a month ago, I bought a 250cc scooter. It gets 60-70 mpg and when I get confident enough, it will be my mode of transportation to/from work. I do live in the country and can take some back roads to work, so I am able to limit my freeway exposure. I have a 2004 Colorado Pickup with a 5 cylinder in it. I get about 22-25 mpg to/from work, so the scooter will save between 60-70 percent on my costs. To me that was a bigger bang for my buck. Still have to figure in the ROI on my purchase and the equipment to go along. I intend to wear a helmet, armored jacket, gloves, and pants. I also took the Motorcycle Safety course $150.00 in our area so it must be figured in as well. Still at 70% savings, it shouldn't take too long to make it break even.

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 05/22/2008 : 07:20:29

I thought about that too Mike. Unfortunately, my back would not survive the 160 miles/day on a scooter. I thought about a new, higher mileage car but realized that the cost of that would surpass any savings I might get. I frankly don't care whether my money is going to the gas station or the car company, it's still going!

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3467 Posts

Response Posted - 05/22/2008 : 08:14:06

In my area, a number of companies and the Federal Govt provide metro checks or stipends to offset commercial commuting costs (ie. subway/metro, bus, van pools). It does not cover full cost but significant or most of the cost. Turns out my son who works for a building/leasing company provides metro checks. Since my son just bought a condo across from the metro station, he decided to take advantage of the subsidies and leave his BMW in the parking garage at his condo. He just walks across the street and takes the train to work...cuts out significant portion of his weekly gas costs.

Edited by - OLarryR on 05/22/2008 08:15:14

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 05/22/2008 : 08:30:02

With diesel approaching $5/gallon here, I'm glad that I bought my "new" Jetta. Initial calculations show me getting pretty close to 50mpg, although I haven't had a chance yet to put in another tankful since I first got it. As it is, I've gone nearly 400 miles on half a tank indicated, so I'm sure I'm getting at least 45 MPG.

I commute about 52 miles per day round trip, 4x a week, and there is no bus route that makes the connections anywhere near the time I need to be at work. My company's pretty flexible as far as start & end times (we are a transportation company after all), but there's simply no available routes. If there were a semi-convenient bus/train/light rail, etc. I'd use it, and I've noticed other guys in the shop are doing so as well.

I thought about some sort of electric vehicle (100+ mp"g"), but none that I found were freeway capable, and there's no reasonable way to get to work w/o being on at least two highways or freeways. I also looked at micro-subcompact-econo-boxes, but they're similarly non-freeway capable. I also thought about a scooter or motorcycle, but I have next to no experience riding them, and have no idea how comfortable I'd be doing so. Certainly they're freeway speed capable, but it just didn't seem a viable idea. With the Jetta, Rita loves the car, it's fun to drive, has surprising pep for a 4-banger (the turbo doesn't hurt), and hopefully I have few or no problems with it.

On the way into work this morning, the DJ's were talking about an MSN article that goes on about what life will be like at $10/gallon.

What I do know is my 14-15 mpg F-250 is going to be sitting looking rather forlorn unless we need it to move the boat or make a dump run.

As far as whether I'd rather pay at the pump or for the car, I figure I can control what I pay for the car to some extent, and I'd rather have a nicer car that gets good mileage than stuff some oil exec's pockets even more.

My $0.02

Edited by - delliottg on 05/22/2008 08:33:23

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 05/22/2008 : 08:48:10

Hi John... Your trustworthy curmudgeon here... If you Google "mileage octane", you'll find several knowledgeable sources that dispute your hypothesis.

The "octane" rating for gasoline is not a measure of energy--it's a measure of the rate of combustion. Higher octane gas in aerosol form burns at a slower, more steady rate, which allows engine makers to increase the compression ratios and alter the spark timing for higher performance. Each engine is designed for the octane specified. Lower-than-specified octane causes knocking--the burn is creating expansion too fast for the movement of the piston. Higher-than-specified will expand more slowly than the designer expects, which can cost you power at higher RPMs, and isn't likely to gain you anything at lower RPMs. Loss of power is probably less damaging than knocking... But better results with a fuel other than that specified suggests your engine might not be running optimally.

As to your one-tank experiment and half-cent improvement, I suspect that, given your objective for your test, you subconsciously drove the car just a little more cautiously than you had before, and/or the way you (or the pump) filled your tank varied a bit from one fill to the other. The latter can be eliminated by repetition of the test... The former is a tough one.

Anyway, keep up the good work--I have no interest in paying for oil traders' Bentleys!

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 05/22/2008 12:02:08

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 05/22/2008 : 09:12:42

Many people at our club have commented that they will sleep over on the boat more often rather than run back and forth from town several times over a weekend. Going to be a lot of new air conditioners on the docks this summer!

Edited by - on

Dave Otey
Navigator

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USA
112 Posts

Response Posted - 05/22/2008 : 09:59:37

Frank, I'm in same camp, Thurs nite race, sleep over to make three day weekends, cruise right into the weekend car free from Thurs nite to Sun eve....

Fairwinds, Dave

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 05/22/2008 : 11:22:37

"Run back and forth" to the boat? That takes me thirty seconds on foot! Taking the boat out... now that's another matter.

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 05/22/2008 : 11:33:46

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dave Bristle
 
As to your one-tank experiment and half-cent improvement, I suspect that, given your objective for your test, you subconsciously drove the car just a little more cautiously than you had before, and/or the way you (or the pump) filled your tank varied a bit from one fill to the other. The latter can be eliminated by repetition of the test... The former is a tough one.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Sure, Dave, burst my bubble

I kinda knew what you were talking about concerning octane, etc. But was(am?) hopeful.

You're right about the other variables. There are others that you didn't mention. They're not easy (or even possible) to control for. I will say though that most of my driving (more than 90%) is cruise-controlled highway driving. I even use my cuise for long stretches of city driving at 35mph. That just keeps me from paying out gifts to local constabularies.

That was true of this tankful.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 05/22/2008 : 12:56:27

I walk the 2.5 miles each way to work and we drive a hybrid (40MPG) with a lot more concern about whether each trip is necessary. Like David's F250, our Yukon sits waiting for the next time we need to tow the boat. I would be very willing to sell the Yukon if I could find a reliable place to rent a pickup when we need it. Main use would be the 400 mile tow to the San Juans and back each fall. David, want to make some extra $$??

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 05/22/2008 : 18:35:35

Just curious, Nautiduck, id your Yukon the std length or the suburban size, and how well does it haul the boat?

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
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Response Posted - 05/22/2008 : 20:12:52

Standard length and is just adequate. A pickup with long wheelbase would be much better.

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 05/22/2008 : 21:18:58

I just spent $122 getting my bike tuned up (wheel spokes fixed, etc.) Friday is the first time I'll be using it to get to work.

Our F150 4WD will probably get used several times a week, but right now I'm making at least 2 round trips a day... but it's only about a mile to my office!

It's almost summer and the heat is the biggest issue. No showers at my office building!
The bike ride will have double duty.. need to drop my cholesterol too!

I found these being manufactured locally....
http://www.scootcoupe.com

Paul

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 05/22/2008 : 22:36:54

I want to find a Cushman Eagle--the miniature Harley!

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 05/23/2008 : 13:36:20

I get 22mpg (I think - what's 10.6 l/100km in mpg??) in our 5 cyl. Volvo C-70 conv. Apparently thats as much gas as a GMC Colorado burns!?!? That doesn't make sense to me.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I have a 2004 Colorado Pickup with a 5 cylinder in it. I get about 22-25 mpg to/from work, so the scooter will save between 60-70 percent on my costs.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I still love my car. I think I'll hold out a little longer before I go shopping for something else.

Edited by - Prospector on 05/23/2008 13:37:08

cat1951
Admiral

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USA
636 Posts

Response Posted - 05/23/2008 : 14:52:03

Prospector...yeah for a 5 cylinder, I think I should be doing better. It is the same on our Saturn Vue. We were told we would get 28 mpg... The only way we can get that is coasting downhill. Still looking for a hill long enough to get that 28....

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 05/23/2008 : 15:17:19

I remember the Cushman Eagle. They were notoriously hard to start, had a starter pedal you lifted up and stood on, hoping you had enough body weight to push it down fast enough to turn the motor over. My older brother had a Cushman scooter with the same type starter. I like Vespas, too. Much less noise and very fuel efficient.

Edited by - on

cat1951
Admiral

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USA
636 Posts

Response Posted - 05/23/2008 : 18:08:22

I too had a friend with the Cushman Eagle. We used to sit and watch him try to start it ...at least until he gave up, or took a couple of breaks. Small tires, and a giant Briggs and Stratton looking engine. What a hoot. I remember him losing it one time when he hit a smal ditch in the street still open from the Public Service Company. Front went through ok, but that back end with no shocks and that tiny little wheel bounced it right up in the air. It wasn't a pretty landing that's for sure.

Oh and I almost forgot...it was turquoise... YIKES

Edited by - cat1951 on 05/23/2008 18:09:52

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 05/23/2008 : 22:35:30

The Eagle... Going back about 50 years, the preferred color was BLACK. More recently, some have apparently been retrofitted with electic starters, and replacement engines for the original B&S one-lunguers. Actually, I'd probably opt for a small Honda cycle (not a Vespa--the wheels are unsafely small)... but the old Eagle has great charm--the Shriners still run them in parades around the country. They're truly the classic Mini-Harley! But then, my only commute these days is 90 miles down the Ho Chi Minh Trail (CT I-95) weekly to and from my "special friend's" home--not a trip for a scooter--maybe not a trip for a Bradley Armoured Personnel Carrier!

BTW, my Highlander gets 24 on the highway, and 21 for all of my driving to date... and is great for passengers and "stuff." I think I'll have to wait for the next generation of technology. A mere 45 mpg can't justify the cost at this point.

Edited by - on

MartinJW
Navigator

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USA
241 Posts

Response Posted - 05/24/2008 : 03:58:51

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Nautiduck
 [edited]...I would be very willing to sell the Yukon if I could find a reliable place to rent a pickup when we need it. Main use would be the 400 mile tow to the San Juans and back each fall. ...[edited]
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Hi Randy,

You've brought up something that I'm a little worried about.

We don't own a vehicle suitable to tow our new boat, so I'm planning on renting a truck - once in the spring and again in the fall - to tow it to/from the lake each season. I see pickups for rent at our local United Rental and U-Haul, I think. (For this first year, our Catalina dealer has agreed to tow the boat from his shop to a ramp on Lake Tahoe and launch the boat - a total of perhaps 40 miles.)

If I can't rent a truck from a commercial outfit, I think that I might try my informal network, especially co-workers. I'll pay gas and time and any other reasonable charges to someone who would tow the boat for an hour or so.

Do you think that this is going to be difficult? I really hate to buy a full-sized truck just to tow the boat 100 miles per year.

Thanks for the input,
Martin

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 05/24/2008 : 09:17:46

Martin: You might also find that somebody does that commercially--friends of mine used to have their C-30 hauled from their house and back each year by a guy who did that--no way they could handle that wide load--especially with their Taurus! Ask around the marinas--that could be your Plan B.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 05/24/2008 : 09:46:33

If you know someone with a pickup that is your best bet. Pay for the gas and take him and his spouse out for a nice dinner. Even if this costs you $150 per trip (including that nice dinner) you will be waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay ahead spending $300 per year vs actually owning a pickup.

Edited by - Nautiduck on 05/24/2008 09:47:06

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 05/26/2008 : 06:28:30

Martin,

We hired a hauler this year - $250 from our house to the marina. He told us his rates jumped and it would have cost us $350 if we had booked the next day. The cradle was left there. Here is the bummer - winter storage is $400. So either we pay $700 to store the boat at home (convenient) or we pay $400 to store it at the marina on the other side of the lake. The marina where we launched offers storage for a much higher rate.) We still had to borrow a friend's truck to go and pick up the cradle.

Total haul distance: 10.5 km (approx. 6.5 miles).

Edited by - on

Turk
Admiral

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USA
736 Posts

Response Posted - 05/26/2008 : 19:50:16

My wife discovered something the other day on TV: Hyper milage.

I thought it was a little goofy at first, but what the heck, I gave it a try. First of all you need a milage economy computer in your car or truck. We own a new Jeep Wrangler and a Saturn Sky roadster (along with my f-150 4wd for work) both having a readout on MPG average.

The idea is to start off slow and try to never use your brakes. Slow down early (take your foot off the gas) before you reach a red light and try to keep moving. Coast down hills and stay a little below the speed limit.

Results!

Jeep wrangler Before: 15.4 mpg avr. After: 19.6 avr.

Sky Before 25.2 Avr After 31.1 avr

Well, it does work and quite well. It's not much fun driving the Sky as it was not intended, but, if your just going to work . . .

I'm sure I can apply the same technique to the Ford, just won't get confirmation on the improvement.

By the way, this became a competition between my wife and I on who could get the best milage.

Edited by - on

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