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Ellis Bloomfield
1st Mate

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USA
85 Posts

Initially Posted - 08/27/2002 : 09:47:26

About a year ago I was contacted by BoatUS and switched my boat insurance to them from State Farm. I reasoned that they were in the boat business and they SAID it was the same coverage and it was a little cheaper on the premium end. My 10 year old Merc 9.9 that looked like new and ran like new was stolen last month and the gal at BoatUS said it would be settled at replacement cost, minus a little bit of depreciation. (West shows the motor and gas tank (they got it also) at a few dollars under $2000. It turns out (and it is in the policy, which I hadn't read) they begin depreciating in the sixth year. So the adjuster was able to come up with a settlement of $845.20. With the same $250 deductible, State Farm would have paid me closer to $1700. State Farm pays replacement cost without deductible, which it also states in their fine print. So the old saying goes, you get what you pay for. (BoatUS does pay replacement on TOTAL loss of the hull.)

I'm not trying to sell or unsell insurance but I also was forced off the road and totaled a van a couple of years ago which was State Farm insured. The van had over 200,000 on it and my dealer said I'd probably get about 1500. State Farm called three days later with a settlement proposal. The adjuster recited a list of things from the type of wheel nuts to things I didn't even know the car was born with. Then he asked me if 4600 would be an ok settlement. (Street value at the time was around 4000.) I said wow, it sure would and the next day I had a check. In the following two months I received two additional checks totaling 150 for I'm not too sure what, and another call from my agent asking if I thought I had been treated fairly.

Again, I'd like to stress that BoatUS treated me according to the terms of the contract. I told the adjuster that I was going to point out the fine print to our assn because many of us sit with like-new older motors on our sailboats.

Ellis Bloomfield

Edited by - on

Buzz Maring
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1775 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2002 : 10:43:35

Hi Ellis,

Thanks for the heads-up. I have been doing a little shopping for boat insurance. I reached the same conclusion you did ... Boat US knows all about boats, so they would seem to be the front-runner. However, several months ago someone posted a comment that Boat US farms out their insurance to other insurance brokers. I don't know if that's true, but it got my attention. I also remember that State Farm got some good accolades, and that surprised me (I didn't know they insured boats).

I have had property and casualty insurance with USAA for over 30 years now, and I've had several claims and few complaints. So, I thought I'd ask USAA if they insure boats. Yes, they do ... BUT, they want a survey of the boat first ... do other insurers require a survey before they will insure the boat?

Buzz Maring, C-25 SK/SR #68, "Freya"

Edited by - on

teamwike
1st Mate

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82 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2002 : 11:24:42

Buzz,
I carry USAA and they are great! As far as the "survey of the boat" all they required from me was a few photos of the boat.( they tell you what they need). Did you talk to the marine division in Tampa?
You should be able to get a hold of them through the main USAA number.
Max in Maryland
84 fksd

Edited by - on

Earl Landers
Navigator

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USA
157 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2002 : 11:32:49

Buzz,
I've used AAA for about the last 20 years or so. When I bought "Gentle Spirit" earlier this year the agent did a visual inspection and verified hull ID and outboard serial number. Then he said "Wow what a neat boat", made my day.
My past claims experience has been excellent. I had a Hobie 16 that was eaten by a stink boat. It came over the tramp and then slid to the rear such that the prop ate holes at regular intervals along the lip of the hull. The dealer said the hull was totalled and AAA cut a check for the replacement amount sans deductable, no questions asked. <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

Earl Landers, C25 SK/SR #3579 "Gentle Spirit"

Edited by - on

Buzz Maring
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1775 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2002 : 11:36:44

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Buzz,
I carry USAA and they are great! As far as the "survey of the boat" all they required from me was a few photos of the boat.( they tell you what they need). Did you talk to the marine division in Tampa?
You should be able to get a hold of them through the main USAA number.
Max in Maryland
84 fksd

<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Hi Max,

Hey, how are your "new digs?" I hope your move went OK and you are all settled into a new sailing routine!

Thanks for the scoop on USAA. No, I didn't talk to anyone in Tampa. I did an online request for info and just got a letter from them ... I'm sure I would have been better off if I'd talked to someone, but here in San Antonio no one knows what a sailboat is. 'Sounds like I need to get in touch with their Marine Division in Tampa ... I'll see if I can find a phone number for them. BTW, a few photos sure sounds better than the expense of a full-blown survey!

Thanks again!

Buzz Maring, C-25 SK/SR #68, "Freya"

Edited by - on

Buzz Maring
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1775 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2002 : 11:41:47

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Buzz,
I've used AAA for about the last 20 years or so. When I bought "Gentle Spirit" earlier this year the agent did a visual inspection and verified hull ID and outboard serial number. Then he said "Wow what a neat boat", made my day.
My past claims experience has been excellent. I had a Hobie 16 that was eaten by a stink boat. It came over the tramp and then slid to the rear such that the prop ate holes at regular intervals along the lip of the hull. The dealer said the hull was totalled and AAA cut a check for the replacement amount sans deductable, no questions asked. <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

Earl Landers, C25 SK/SR #3579 "Gentle Spirit"
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Hi Earl,

Thanks for the info ... I hadn't even thought about AAA ("American Automobile Assoc."; what has that got to do with boats?!).

BTW, you weren't on your Hobie 16 when that stink boat sliced it up, were you? I hope not!

Buzz Maring, C-25 SK/SR #68, "Freya"

Edited by - on

Earl Landers
Navigator

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USA
157 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2002 : 12:35:56

Buzz,
Yes we were! We had just started a race and were in the middle of our first tack. The guy on the power boat had just done a glancing blow off of another 16 that was farther up wind. After commenting to my crew something to the effect "Did you see that?" we both came to the realization that he was bearing right down on us <img src=icon_smile_shock.gif border=0 align=middle>. "Oh @$#%#@!". We both jumped from the starboard side over to port and then jumped overboard. About the time we hit the water the power boat went over the starboard rail. We stood there in about 4 foot of water and watched it happen. Nobody was hurt, but my boat was a mess. <img src=icon_smile_dissapprove.gif border=0 align=middle> It turned out that the guy driving the power boat was about 90 years old and couldn't see 10 feet. He had two kids with him (under ten years) and not a life jacket amoung them. I haven't sailed near there since!

Oh and you should have heard what my crew had to say about the whole situation <img src=icon_smile_shock.gif border=0 align=middle> She was a firey little red head and had quite a bit to say. Unfortunatley none of it can be posted here!!

Earl Landers, C25 SK/SR #3579 "Gentle Spirit"

Edited by - on

Buzz Maring
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1775 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2002 : 13:27:59

BTW, you weren't on your Hobie 16 when that stink boat sliced it up, were you? I hope not!
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Buzz,
Yes we were! ... Nobody was hurt, but my boat was a mess. <img src=icon_smile_dissapprove.gif border=0 align=middle> It turned out that the guy driving the power boat was about 90 years old and couldn't see 10 feet.

Earl Landers, C25 SK/SR #3579 "Gentle Spirit"
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

HOLY COW! You were sooooo lucky that no one was hurt. If I live long enough to be dangerous at driving a car or steering a boat, I hope I've got enough sense to relinquish the steering wheel/helm to someone else and enjoy the ride. 'Glad you survived and moved up to a C-25!

Buzz Maring, C-25 SK/SR #68, "Freya"

Edited by - on

jellyfish
Navigator

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USA
171 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2002 : 14:53:14

I had mentioned on another thread (the one where the guy's boat got damage from his neighbor) that insurance is an important part of your boat. I have been an P&C insurance agent for 18 yrs and there are some truths and non-truths in some of the preceding comments. 1st BoatsUS and West Marine both endorse insurance programs just like an actor would endorse any product. They get a kick back from the insurer just like the actor would be paid to do the ad. Second, I am an independent agent who owns my own agency. Simple put that means I represent about 20 different insurance companies and do not owe my soul to any of them. This cannot be said for State Farm, USAA, or any of the so called "direct writers". With that said, believe me your relationship with your agent not the insurer is what is going to save you should you a serious problem. I have heard horror stories about every insuers out there at one time or another, including State Farm. For the record, although AAA may have written a check to Earl to settle the claim I bet you $10 to a donut that they turned around and suborgated against the old man driving the power boat's insurance. In doing that AAA might have even made money off of Earl by paying him quickly and getting him out of the way. The amount AAA paid Earl might not be the same they recovered from the at fault party. This is probally more than anyone wanted to know but, the point is find you a good insurance agent and let him worry about finding you a good insurance company. That is what he gets paid for. Also, be very concerned about the liability limits you carry. All too often people worry about covering their boats and it's contents. But take a page from Earl story, if they hadnt gotten off the boat in time and the old man had killed or seriously hurt someone the claim would surely have been for a hell of alot more than the cost of an older C25. Check your liability limits and get you a good agent!

Edited by - on

bren737
Captain

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291 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2002 : 15:52:42

Buzz,

Hello! For some reason, I never realized we were "neighbors" here in San Antonio. Maybe I'll see you at Canyon (assuming it reopens) someday!

I have had my boat insurance with USAA for over five years. Never (fortunately) had to file a claim, but have been very pleased with them as usual. They did not require a survey (they do after a certain hull length, which I can't remember what it is) and had to only provide them with the usual marina info and a couple of pictures of the boat. I've always talked with a pleasant woman named Margie who seems to be pretty knowledgable. Her number is 800-531-1688 ext 22403.

"... but here in San Antonio, no one knows what a sailboat is." Boy can I relate! Ever stop in the "Sail & Ski" store here? It's strictly "Fish & Ski." The guy actually laughed when I asked him if they actually handled any parts, rigging, etc. for sailboats. I either have to do my shopping at the Sailboat Shop in Austin or hit some of the chandleries in San Diego when I'm there.

Bren Peterson
C250WB, #642, "Ruah"
San Antonio, TX

Edited by - on

Buzz Maring
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1775 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2002 : 17:06:40

Hi Bren,

Yup, I'm here in the Alamo City, where my outside thermometer reads 109 degrees right now. Anyway, thanks for passing on the USAA contact ... maybe they thought my boat was bigger than 25 feet and that's why they originally asked for a survey.

As far as getting sailboat parts here, I agree ... it is a challenge. The West Marine store here is small, but they try to be helpful ... there is only one guy working there who knows much about sailboats. I buy most of my stuff online, and I constantly surf eBay for good deals. I like to improvise, so I take what I learn here on the Forum and combine it with stuff I scrounge up ... it has worked so far.

Last week the local news said Canyon Lake might open before Labor Day ... have you heard anything definite? I thought the road to the marina was still under water ... are they still using the pontoon boat shuttle? I'm shooting for October to launch my boat, but for the sake of the rest of y'all (especially Derek, who is about to go crazy), I hope they reopen Canyon Lake soon!

Buzz Maring, C-25 SK/SR #68, "Freya"

Edited by - on

jellyfish
Navigator

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USA
171 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2002 : 17:46:16

Bren, Im not trying to pick an aguement here nor trying to sell you insurance. But please, you stated that you had never had a claim in 5 years but are very pleased with them. Insurance companies never show their true colors until you have a claim so how could you be so pleased with them. Is the lady real nice to you while taking your money? Let me know how pleased you are after you have had the claim. I live close to Hubert Field and Eglin AFB, heavy military around here. You would be surprised how many times people have walked into my office cussing USAA saying they had been with USAA 25yrs and had one claim and they cancelled me. Any insurance is great insurance until you have the claim. further, everyone here preaches about having a survey done before buying a boat. dont you think it is in everyone best interest to do the same when insuring it?

ps: take this little test, I bet you that same $10 to a donut that if you take out that great USAA policy and look at your liability limits you have less than 25,000 and more like 10,000. call your "knowledgeable lady" up and ask her how much would it cost to raise your liability limits to 100,000 or 300,000. I think you will be surprised to find out it will only cost you less than a couple cases of beer. then heaven forbid anyone ever gets hurt on your boat and they sue you for 50,000 in medical bills and you find out from your "knowledgeable lady" that the extra 40,000 in excess of your coverage could have been covered for a additional 20 bucks a year you might not think her so knowledgeable!

Edited by - jellyfish on 08/27/2002 18:00:31

Edited by - on

Doug
Captain

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USA
457 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2002 : 19:12:13

Time to jump in. I'm a property claims adjuster for one of the big companies mentioned. I'd have to say that yes, you MIGHT save a few dollars a year getting insurance from someone like Boat US, West Marine, or on-line,and if you ever have a claim you MIGHT get the sevice you need. But for my money your best bet is to have a local agent that you can call. An agent will go to bat for you when there's a problem. Local agents and claims people can offer speed and personal service that you may otherwise miss. I've saved vacations and fishing trips by showing up at the dock with the checkbook in hand the day of an accident. I've also visited the same boat a year later after a 2nd (or 3rd) accident and can better deal with repair issues (and suggest it's time for the owner to trade the boat for an RV <img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle>). Don't assume your local agent is going to cost you more. I carry a ton of insurance with the State Farm- 2 or 3 cars, house, boat, liability, earthquake. SWMBO recently spent far too much time calling Geico, Pemco and a few more to get cheaper rates. After an hour or so on the phone she still hadn't gotten a quote for the boat and realized she would only save about $15.00 a year. Call an agent and see what the can do.

Doug - #1913 Noeta

Edited by - on

RichardG
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2002 : 20:26:51

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>BoatsUS and West Marine both endorse insurance programs<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Dan:

Is BoatUS acting in the capacity of an agent here?

I have a CNA boat policy bought through BoatUS. I chose BoatUS because the previous owner had it through them, so they knew the boat which made things simple. Also, a few years prior a friend's boat driven by someone else was in a boating accident with serious injuries involved -- he said BoatUS was "fantastic" and helped make sure the insurance company covered what would otherwise have been a financially devastating loss.

But truthfully, I don't know if my boat policy covers "replacement value" (like my State Farm homeowners policy) or "depreciated value" (like my State Farm auto policy). But that's not too important to me because, unlike homeowners insurance in which the loss of the house itself would be financially catastrophic, the loss of the boat or car would suck big time but would not (relatively) hurt me too bad financially. The paperwork says the boat policy is "agreed hull value $6,000".

I see that the principal value of boat insurance is to protect me against the big hit of a lawsuit, both actual loss and legal defense costs. Hopefully, I'll never use it. But if I do, I hope I get the same service and protection from BoatUS that my friend did.

And I don't work for BoatUS, but I do work for a small subsidiary of CNA (selling and writing a very specific product related to the financing and production of independent films, not in any way related to boat, car or homeowners insurance) -- however, I do not endorse any CNA product as they are terminating our company and I will no longer have this job in about a month.

RichardG 81 C25 SR/FK "Sanity"

Edited by - on

Ed Montague
Captain

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USA
499 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2002 : 23:40:34

Sorry to hear about the job and company Richard. Hope everything works out for you and the family. Somebody has to write that kind of insurance. Can you and your partners start your own or affiliate with another company?

Ed Montague on 'Yahoo'
1978 #765 SK, Stnd, Dinette ~_/)~

Edited by - on

Dennis Pierce
1st Mate

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USA
59 Posts

Response Posted - 08/28/2002 : 08:44:50

I have 14 State Farm policies plus an umbrella. I took the position that boats are replacable, people aren't. So I have a $300,000/$500,00 liability policy for less than $100 per year. In almost 30 years of boating, I've never filed a claim nor has anyone filed against me. The premiums with compounded interest probably could have paid for a C-250!

Dennis Pierce
Gypsy Witch #1719

Edited by - on

Ellis Bloomfield
1st Mate

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USA
85 Posts

Response Posted - 08/28/2002 : 09:56:35

Richard,
Yes, "Boat Owners Association of the United States" is listed as the Agent and the underwriter is Continental Casualty Company, on my BoatUS paperwork.

Edited by - on

bren737
Captain

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291 Posts

Response Posted - 08/28/2002 : 10:39:51

Dan (Jellyfish),

Good morning! Don't worry, I don't take your post as "picking an argument."<img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle> However, let me clarify a couple of things. I have had my auto, home, boat and various misc. insurances with USAA for just under 20 years. While I have been fortunate in never having to file a boat claim, I have had to work claims for auto and home and have been extremely pleased with them.

Once my wife tapped the car in front of her at a stop sign. There was a slight dent in his rear bumper and in her front bumper. They exchanged info, a cop happened by and filled out a report. Six weeks later we were served papers to the tune of close to $750,000 from the guy and his wife claiming a long list of maladies to even include the wife's "mental anguish" due to the "loss of (her husband's) ability to perform his duties as a husband and lover." I was livid, USAA was calm and cool. After a couple of months of investigating, to include video surveilence, he was confronted with evidence of his scam and withdrew all claims.

I suppose living in San Antonio (USAA's HQ) makes it lucky for me that it is more like a 'regular' agent. I can go in and talk face to face with someone when necessary. The "knowledgeable lady" is indeed knowledgeable. Her husband fishes the same lake I sail. She was the one that suggested I go with $300,000 liability (less than $50/year). She also was the one that suggested a yacht vs. pleasure boat policy for hull replacement vs. market value coverage, though it is more costly. She knows her stuff.

I certainy agree with you that 'you get what you pay for.' Hey, that's why we sail Catalinas instead of some other cheaper boats!<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> I'm not trying to sell USAA; they just through the years have worked well for me. As I said, maybe a good part of it is that they are right here in town for me.

Happy sails. . .

Bren Peterson
C250WB, #642, "Ruah"
San Antonio, TX

Edited by - on

jellyfish
Navigator

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USA
171 Posts

Response Posted - 08/28/2002 : 14:20:31

Doug, thanks for your backup. it is really hard to define how this industry works to outsiders. most people just pay their premiums and hope nothing ever happens. as stated before I have all kinds of horror stories about every company out there at one time or another!

Richard, BoatUS is probally acting as the "agency" in order to legally receive the commissions, but they are not the "agent". the agent is a person that represents you. if there is not a person's name on the signature or dec page then you dont have an agent.

Dennis & Bren, State Farm & USAA are both great companies. however they are also plain vanilla type companies. you have more than one serious at fault accident and they will drop you like a hot potatoe! I am very glad to see most of those who replied have good libility limits on thier policies.

a little true story that happens early this summer.

a friend of mine, the lady that cuts my hair was jumping from one boat to another in the process of rafting up. she was not familar with the sailboat that she was jumping on to and had a line in her hand she was passing off to another person. long story short she stepped backwards into an open hatch on the foredeck. she broke her arm and twisted her back. of course you cant cut hair with a broken arm. anyway this guy had State Farm and they paid out around $28,000 in medical bills, another $20,000 in lost wages and gave the lady another $50,000 lump sum settlement for pain and suffering. Total tab $98,000! did the poor guy do anything wrong, not really! was he respondible for the accident, yes she was an invited guest aboard his boat! so yea, it does happen. just a bunch folks out having a good time. and that is way you should have good insurance coverage.

Edited by - on

Bruce Baker
Captain

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USA
402 Posts

Response Posted - 08/29/2002 : 09:30:53

Three weeks ago, I broke my mast. As I understand it, this is routinely covered by boat insurance. My experience with State Farm was pretty trying. It seemed to me that nobody in the company knows anything about sailboats. They tried for three weeks to weasel out of paying, saying first that it was a maintenance issue. Then they hired a marine surveyor who said the problem was faulty installation by the boat yard who set my rig up. They said they don't pay for faulty work and advised me to sue the boat yard. On Tuesday I faxed them a strongly worded letter, and yesterday they agreed to pay $3500 less a $500 deductible. I have my car and home insured with State Farm, but for sailboats I think they're out of their depth.

Bruce Baker
Yee Ha 3573

Edited by - on

teamwike
1st Mate

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82 Posts

Response Posted - 08/29/2002 : 13:44:35

Thanks for asking Buzz,
All went well with the move, but decided to leave the boat on the trailer for the rest of the season. Plan on doing a refit( this fall/winter) to get her ready for next season of cruising/racing. I made the decision after dropping the mast( most standing rigging is shot and running rigging is right behind it.) Look forward to having a chance to bringing her back in to shape.
Will let you guys know how it goes.
Max in Maryland
84 fksd

Edited by - on

jellyfish
Navigator

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USA
171 Posts

Response Posted - 08/29/2002 : 16:16:28

Bruce, how did you break your mast?

Edited by - on

LOREN SOUERS
Navigator

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USA
100 Posts

Response Posted - 08/29/2002 : 16:19:56

Bravo!

I am a lawyer and I have always insisted on getting insurance from an independent insurance agent. With an independent agent, he/she can tell you that your company is not treating you well, charging more than the market, time to change companies, etc. An agent who is exclusive (i.e. can sell only one company) isn't really on your side. You will probably learn this the first time you have a claim.
Thanks for the note.

Loren Souers, aboard
Nimue, The Lady of the Lake

Edited by - on

Buzz Maring
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1775 Posts

Response Posted - 08/29/2002 : 16:55:21

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Bruce, how did you break your mast?

<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>
'Guess you missed it Dan ... here is the thread about his broken mast:

http://www.catalina25-250.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1654

Buzz Maring, C-25 SK/SR #68, "Freya"

Edited by - on

Ellis Bloomfield
1st Mate

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USA
85 Posts

Response Posted - 08/30/2002 : 08:57:09

Loren,
You are among sailing friends on this site, I'm sure no one will hold it against you that you are a lawyer. With regard to the independent/exclusive agent, I've had three State Farm agents over the years who have really been on my side. Don't forget that these people are neighbors, involved in church, school, etc. with the rest of us. I'm sure there are good and horror stories involved with either independent or exclusive agents.

Edited by - on

Doug
Captain

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USA
457 Posts

Response Posted - 08/30/2002 : 10:35:02

Well, I know at least one adjuster with State Farm that isn't out of his depth with sail boats<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>.

Doug - #1913 Noeta

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The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.