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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

STD main sail with TR?

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Luisdecr
Deckhand

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6 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/22/2008 : 18:06:04

Folks:

I am new to boating, and just bought a 1985 Cat 25 TR/FK and I am having a blast taking the boat out and practicing the sailing skills I learned on my sailing classes last year.

I have some questions for all the experienced sailors on this great forum (I have been reading this forum for a few months now):

Is it is possible to use a std main sail with the tall rig mast/boom?, my motivation is that the cockpit is very crowded with the tall rig, I already had the boom hit me in the back of my head!!! ouch, and I would like to add a bimini later in the year. So here are the questions:

Is the boat stability affected by adding a smaller std main sail to th e TR?.

If so, where can you buy a decent used std mail sail for casual cruising?.

Are there other alternatives I should consider to "open up" the cockpit?.

Are there any other safety/rigging issues I should be concerned with by changing the mast/sail configuration?

I would also welcome any words of advise from the experts to speed up my learning, and avoid pitfalls, as I am starting this endeavor a little late in my life.

Thanks!.

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 05/22/2008 : 18:40:55

The reason that the boom hangs about 1 ft. lower is that the tall rig mast is 2 ft. taller, But the main is 3 ft. taller. If you reef the TR main, with the boom just above the sail track opening, your main will approximate the size of a std rig main. Also, you should be able to use a bimini with the reefed main quite easily.

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GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4312 Posts

Response Posted - 05/22/2008 : 20:01:52

Luisdecr,

You're not starting a little late in life. Alot of the poeple on this forum are 50+.

Welcome aboard!

Edited by - on

stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Response Posted - 05/22/2008 : 20:18:45

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I would also welcome any words of advise from the experts to speed up my learning, and avoid pitfalls, as I am starting this endeavor a little late in my life<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

50 is the new 40, and since the new 40 is the old 35, you hit on sailing at just about the right time. You now have about 37 years to enjoy your new favorite thing to do.

My suggestion, get an old salt to go sailing with you on your boat. Sign on as race crew with someone else's boat, or get into racing with your boat. These are the best ways I know to speed up along the learning curve while enjoying the ride.

Welcome to the forum

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 05/22/2008 : 23:11:51

A standard rig sail, hoisted to the top of the mast, will pull the boom to about 8' above the cockpit sole, which will look a little strange--you might need a new mainsheet! You can always hoist it a couple of feet lower, which will be like a reefed sail. If I owned a TR, I would very likely have the sail altered (or a new one made) to be a foot shorter, so the boom rides where it does on a standard rig. One issue then might be the placement of the gooseneck relative to the mast gate--the opening in the slot. You don't want the gooseneck to be at or above that opening. Altering the sail would make the boat less competitive for class or even PHRF racing--so be it.

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Even Chance
Captain

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USA
393 Posts

Response Posted - 05/23/2008 : 04:15:06

If you go to the C25 Tech Tips and click on the bimini, you'll see my solution for putting a bimini on a TR. I used a Capri 25 sail, which worked perfectly and is a good compromise between the TR and SR mainsails.

But I don't race.

Edited by - on

eric.werkowitz
Captain

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USA
283 Posts

Response Posted - 05/23/2008 : 07:07:02

I have a TR and need to sail with a bimini up in the summer (I live in FL). At that height, with or without the bimini, the mast will clear your noggin while gybing. On my old main sail I had a local loft take some off the top. This allowed me to shorten the sail so I didn't have to reef it all summer. The roach did change and had more of tendency to sweep the aft stay when gybing, but overall it worked well. I finally blew out that sail this year on a gusty day. On the new main I had the loft install an additional reef point so I could reef as low as possible and still have the boom clear the bimini.

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Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 05/23/2008 : 07:13:01

Out f curiosity, how tall is a tall rig mast?

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dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 05/23/2008 : 07:52:29

The tall rig(TR) mast is 30' and the standard rig(SR) mast is 28'. The luff on a TR main is about 27.66' and 24.6' on the SR. So, the TR mast is 2' taller but the sail's luff is 3' longer, which explains why the TR boom rides 1' lower.
On my TR, with the main fully hoisted, the boom rides just below the mast gate. When I reef, I raise the boom so it is a few inches above the mast gate and secure a slide stop under it to hold it there while I tie off the reefing line. The reef points on my main are almost 3' up the sail, so when I'm reefed, my main is just slightly smaller than a SR main (the foot will be shorter). In the reefed position, there's plenty of room for the bimini. Actually, my bimini is short enough that I don't even need to reef to use it.

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Even Chance
Captain

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USA
393 Posts

Response Posted - 05/23/2008 : 09:19:27

At the risk of beating a dead horse . . . raising the boom when reefing is an unusual technique. It requires all sorts of adjustments (mainsheet, vang, gooseneck, lazyjacks if you have them) that are more complex than lowering the head of the sail. If you have jiffy reefing, you mark the main halyard with the reefing point, ease it to there, harden the reefing lines, and you're done. The added benefit of lowering the sail is that the wind is stronger higher off the water, and has more heeling leverage up there. When you lower the sail to reef, you are dealing with the problem where it most acutely lies.

The issue, of course, is the lowered boom for the TR and bimini clearance. The Capri 25 mainsail luff is 26.5 -- exactly the amount needed to hoist the sail fully, keep the gooseneck BELOW the mast gate, and clear a bimini. You don't have to worry about clipping the backstay, and the foot is the same length as a C25 main. Unless you're dealing with class issues for racing, what's not to like?

And, Eric, I'm sure you meant "the BOOM will clear your noggin while gybing," unless you have VERY unusual gybing technique!

Edited by - Even Chance on 05/23/2008 09:28:06

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 05/23/2008 : 09:29:28

This seems to come up from time to time. I wonder what the cost would be to convert a TR to a SR? Obviously, all the standing rigging would have to change and the sails, and the mast. But, if you could time the project to coincide with replacement time for those first two items, it might be cost effective to cut and re-wire the mast.

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 05/23/2008 : 09:51:05

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by John Russell
 I wonder what the cost would be to convert a TR to a SR? Obviously, all the standing rigging would have to change and the sails, and the mast. But, if you could time the project to coincide with replacement time for those first two items, it might be cost effective to cut and re-wire the mast.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

The mast extrusions are different between the SR and TR. Sure you could cut it down, but it would be much cheaper, and a whole lot easier, to go the way Brooke did rather than replacing the entire sail inventory (furling?), mast, standing rigging,...etc.

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eric.werkowitz
Captain

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USA
283 Posts

Response Posted - 05/23/2008 : 15:50:24

Brook,

I guess you've never seen me sail!

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dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 05/23/2008 : 16:05:00

I raised the boom really only for bimini clearance, and only while reefing at the dock. I don't have the mast gate covers. It also allows me to get the reefed sail material closer to the boom, i.e. no gap between the bottom slug and the boom due to straddling the mast gate. What I need to do is put the bottom slide on a jack line so I can bring the reef cringle down to the boom.
Actually, I found out a few weeks ago that I don't even have to reef to use the bimini. It's 36" high and mounts on the deck outside the coamings(sp?) - came off our C-22. Yes, it does make for a low clearance bimini. With the TR main fully hoisted, the boom is just barely off the canvas.

Edited by - dmpilc on 05/23/2008 16:11:45

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