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Hit again while at anchor by a new bleach bottle!

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redviking
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
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Initially Posted - 05/31/2008 : 07:12:01

Woke up this morning to an odd bumping noise. Fired out of bed to find a neighboring boat rubbing up against Lysistrata's sides. The owner of the other vessel - I will not call him a Captain - comes up top and says, "Oh I guess I must have SLIPPED." Note: he did not use the word dragged. Slipped...

His very large partner had to sit down while motoring away while the owner tried to fend his vessel off of ours. At one point he actually left his vessel and boarded Lysistrata so he could keep his anchor roller off of our new stanchions and lifelines. I'm like Deja vu, NO?

My wife explained to him that we had been hit recently and he stated, "I wasn't there." No apology, but then again no real damage thankfully. When he started to pull up his anchor chain I quickly saw the problem, not enough scope. We are anchored just off of a huge seawall in front of the Naval Academy in Annapolis in nearly 20 feet of water with 150' of chain out. Guess how much the bleach bottle had out? I'd guess 60 to 70 feet.

SO, any guesses on the make and model of the bleach bottle in question? We were recently hit by a BendyToy Oceanis 39 in St. Augustine, so we'll take that boat off of the list. We never have seen a Hunter anchor out, actually we rarely see Hunters period. Jeaneau owners prefer docks... SO, what's left? Yeppers, a brand new Catalina 470!

Get your dreams worth alright. But you don't have enough money leftover for an anchor alarm? Enough chain? Some basic skills training?

The C47 did not reset his anchor. They just slowly left the harbor, never to be seen again. Looks like maybe they are gonna sail across the pond to Europe!

Speaking of going across the pond, my German friend that hit us in St. Augustine left the US and was in the Azores as of last week. The anchorage is now just a little bit safer.

Sten

DPO C25 #3220 "Zephyr", SR, FK
SV Lysistrata - C&C 39 - Annapolis MD

Edited by - on

DaveR
Master Marine Consultant

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2015 Posts

Response Posted - 05/31/2008 : 08:34:42

Is there some kind of Maritime Séance you can preform to rid your boat of these evil tendencies?

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 05/31/2008 : 08:50:01

Well at least they bought American!

Edited by - on

Renzo
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Response Posted - 05/31/2008 : 09:06:01

Sten, At this point I would be considering surrounding my boat with spears when at anchor, Or at least some kind of unpleasant odor producing device that would discourage other boaters from anchoring near-by. Or maybe some kind of giant, Tesla inspired, magnet set to repulse the metal fittings on approaching boats - solar powered,
of course.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
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Response Posted - 05/31/2008 : 09:12:52

Your demeaning criticism of other people's boats (choices) and your better-than-thou attitude is really getting tiring. I'll be skipping any more of your posts.

Edited by - Nautiduck on 05/31/2008 09:28:38

Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
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Response Posted - 05/31/2008 : 10:26:34

UH-OOOOOHHHHH...

I guess it was fun till we mentioned the California brand.

Nothing like a 47' starter boat. I presume he never even got a copy of Chapman, much less read it.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
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Response Posted - 05/31/2008 : 14:11:17

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> UH-OOOOOHHHHH... I guess it was fun till we mentioned the California brand.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Has nothing do do with the California brand. Has everything to do with respect for other people. By the way, Dave, unless you have insiders information how could you possibly know this C47 was a first boat? How could you possibly know what they have read or not?

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
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Response Posted - 05/31/2008 : 15:02:37

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Nautiduck
 I'll be skipping any more of your posts.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Edited by - on

jerlim
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Response Posted - 05/31/2008 : 17:21:35

SOMEBODY needs to lighten up....

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redviking
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Response Posted - 05/31/2008 : 17:30:29

Quote: "Your demeaning criticism of other people's boats (choices) and your better-than-thou attitude is really getting tiring. I'll be skipping any more of your posts."

Good, so you probably won't see my reply. I am reflecting my own experiences and those of my peers when I express my viewpoints. If you don't wanna know what real cruisers think of "bleach bottle" boats and their owners - please disregard. I mean no offense. If you don't wish to read my posts because you don't wanna know what I know, then don't. There are very few folks on this list that have learned from this site and repaid with time expended trying to educate, etc AFTER they moved on... I used to cringe when asked what boat we were on when we owned a C25. Virtually everyone cruising has a Catalina or bendyToy story. I'm not kidding, one cruiser at the dock said that he was going to start painting the logos of vessels that had run into him at anchor on his bow. Guess which logos?

So for all of you thinking of having your Catalina tattoo removed, stop now!

They make fine boats and I myself not only owned one, but want an oldie for my retirement years. You folks out there with the older C25 pay attention. I payed $6,400 for my C25 many years ago and sold her for $9,750 sight unseen and then she was trucked to NJ from Massachusetts. I'm guessing I'll pay at least 20K for a well equipped 82 or earlier with all of the teak, etc...

My wife and I cruised extensively on our C25 and we simply love the boat. I wish that Catalina would consider making a C25 "Flicka" version and charge more money for things like decent chocks and cleats, bigger winches, etc. That's all...

The "owner" in question did not even have the courtesy to re-anchor and verify we were OK, or even circle around. Did not answer his radio when we hailed him - you are required to report events such as this. And basically disappeared into the early morning. Do I think this is proper seamanship? NO. Is is demographically possible that the least experienced sailors are piloting big "bleach bottles?" Yes, it is. Some on this list have expressed interest in Catalinas' for offshore work. While I will agree that it is possible - Steve Milby and I talked about this for a bit in Solomons Island, nice to meet you - there are better vessels for crossing the pond. That's all... They do what they do VERY WELL! It's the average owner that makes the average sailor cringe when he sees that he is anchored next to a "bleach bottle." Get it?

Know what you are doing and you'll help make the reputation improve. I saw a bendyToy 35 that had 150 feet of rode and only 15 feet of chain. Most on this list have better. These builders are not making beautiful boats in my opinion sailing wise. Comfort wise, yes. but that is only an opinion. Want to know why the "bleach bottle" nickname? Because you can cut a Clorox bleach bottle and basically creat a modern day production boat hull. Lots of space below, and a lot of windage when it blows. This is a fact. My C25 used to "hunt" so bad that I resorted to sewing a riding sail. It's all about displacement to keel ratio's and cabin top dynamics.

Think you have a great boat? You do, I tested our C25 in just about everything including the remnants of Hurricane Ernesto wherein we were on board for the whole storm with two hooks down. But then again, our "old school" C25 had a 50/50 ballast to displacement ratio and the hull was hand layed up.

Maybe you'll never do anything other than a C250 or c25... Cool. But for many, including myself, the C25 is a boat of convenience or a learning boat. I owned a Frers 30 and a Pearson 30 before my C25. The C25 was the lesser of all boating evils in frigid New England. The price was right, I could solo, and I could live on her for weeks at a time comfortably... Again, great boat. What I don't like is that they focused on those cool seats on the stern and got rid of the bulkheads. OK, different strokes for different folks - don't get your panties in a bunch.

Comments on this forum in my opinion are subject to interpretation. there are a variety of experience levels and perspectives. My vessel would look ridiculous on a lake in Kansas. I would not have sold my C25 unless we were going to do something interesting like cruise. Get it? It's not holier than thou, it's geez I kinda know something I didn't before and I am sharing. It's all about attitude. If you know what you are doing and are on a C25, you will be respected by your peers in the anchorage and do well by this association and by the Catalina name. Don't read Chapmans - and I will bet my vessel the catalina 470 owner hasn't - and pay the price for your stupidity and make everyone else who owns a Catalina or has ever owned a Catalina pay the price in reputation. Same for all of the "bleach bottles." If that offends you - I am truly sorry, but my heart is in the right place. Some people wear their hearts on their sleeves, I wear mine tied to my left boot!

BTW - after talking with several "cruisers" at the dinghy dock, I picked up a couple tips which I will now "Share" - that is if you are still reading!

One cruiser takes pictures of boats anchored too close and documents in his log book the fact that he warned said vessel of their proximity problem. Another one rows over and requests insurance information. And finally-we learned from our last experience to ALWAYS have bumpers in the cockpit when at anchor - and I suggest you all do as well. This means that if your boat is unattended, someone else can throw them out for you if you are dragging. OR, if someone is dragging on you, YOU can throw out your own bumpers such that damage to your vessel is averted... Good golly, I hope someone learned something somewhere.

Quote: "Is there some kind of Maritime Séance you can preform to rid your boat of these evil tendencies?"

Um, my boat is not the boat needing the Priest and an exorcism. Pay attention, we just find these people by accident.

Sten

"we can't change what boats people buy, but we can try to make sure that they don't run into us"

DPO C25 #3220 "Zephyr", SR, FK
SV Lysistrata - C&C 39 - Annapolis MD

Edited by - on

OLarryR
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Response Posted - 05/31/2008 : 19:33:37

It's always interesting to read others adventures.

Believe there is a Section on this Board for those that have moved on to other boats - The Admiralty Forum ?

In any case, it would seem that probably with all your cruising you would wind up having more than your share of stories and mishaps and we can all learn from those experiences. After all, you have a wealth of knowledge on seamanship, etc and despite that, this is what.. the second mishap in what....6 months or so ? At least this one looks like no damage.

I sail frequently...well compared to others in my marina...and it is on the Potomac River ! Not exactly the ocean and definitely not to far away lands ! I sail perhaps 3 times a week or so...and mainly day sail - So little chance for anchorage issues ...but possible. My experience level is comprised of lot's of sailing over 20 years ago...and now for the last 2 years, into a refresher series of regaining past experience and hopefully dropping some bad habits. So, reading your postings is informative and then I reconsider my own limited knowledge because I have not logged in the extensive training for cruising nor the years of doing it and yet, even on the Potomac River a storm can kick up all of a sudden and so preparedness is important and there certainly are many, many boats and sometimes narrow channels with commercial vessels to negotiate.....so I consider myself fortunate for not having any major incident in the last 2 years. Now that I think of it...back when I had a brand new 23 O'Day (1980-1985) and did do overnight anchoring sometimes in crowded anchorages, I feel pretty good looking back that I then had no incidents either. Maybe I just prepared adequately and located myself away from trouble...or was just lucky considering I know I have many shortcomings when it comes to seamanship. Actaully, even before that...every boat that I had...never had major incidents or even any minor ones that I can think of right now...certainly there were no repair jobs needed.

Regardless of who is at fault in these instances when major incidents do occur, it kind of reminds me of what they train you in Driver's Ed - "Defensive Driving". Perhaps with as many places as you have anchored, you cannot always be "on guard" and move your boat at the slightest hint of potential threats.

Edited by - on

jerlim
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 05/31/2008 : 19:41:51

Sten - well said

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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Response Posted - 06/01/2008 : 01:11:53

Sten, I enjoy your posts, to each his own.

Catalina makes a nice coastal cruiser, good value for the money. I have a 1978, I don't really like the new ones.

Beneteaus win a lot of races around San Diego.

Edited by - on

Renzo
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Response Posted - 06/01/2008 : 08:24:47

originally posted by Redviking
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> I'm guessing I'll pay at least 20K for a well equipped 82 or earlier with all of the teak, etc...
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Call me when you're ready - I've got an '84 that I'll outfit anyway you want.

Edited by - on

ilnadi
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Response Posted - 06/01/2008 : 11:19:55

Let's keep two things separated.

First the real story. Just based on the distribution of the drivers you see on the road, statistics say there will be many bad skippers out there. I've had people run into the nose of my boat in the slip and when I stuck my head out of the v-berth (where my daughter and I were still sleeping) motored off mumbling "we just hit the dock lines" (the dock lines that went "thunk-crunch"). Only thing saved them from a bunch of obscenity was a 4-yr-old. Did not have my glasses, for all I know it was a "real boat" that hit my poor bleach bottle. The point is there are newbies (I've done my share but "sorry" goes a long way) and simply bad skippers out there.

Second the extraneous part. There is Sten, as my father would have said, while he is in the right to begin with (due to obvious poor seamanship on someone else's part) putting himself in the wrong due to poor judgment of tongue.
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by redviking
If you don't wanna know what real cruisers think of "bleach bottle" boats and their owners - please disregard...I used to cringe when asked what boat we were on when we owned a C25.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> Begs the question, if you cringed having to admit you were one of us why are you back here pontificating? Sounds like you're trying to justify your previous cringe by assuming bad seamanship is limited to owners of coastal cruisers.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by redviking
It's not holier than thou, it's geez I kinda know something I didn't before and I am sharing. It's all about attitude...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Exactly, it is the attitude that is muddying whatever it is you're trying to share.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by redviking
Quote: "Is there some kind of Maritime Séance you can preform to rid your boat of these evil tendencies?"

Um, my boat is not the boat needing the Priest and an exorcism. Pay attention, we just find these people by accident.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Beg to differ. If the <insert insult> keep finding you, you need to take action. Two would be enough for me to consider pouring some good rum on Lysistrata's bow and ask Neptune for a break.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
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Response Posted - 06/01/2008 : 11:30:06

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by redviking
 ...But then again, our "old school" C25 had a 50/50 ballast to displacement ratio...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">How old was that?? (With all due respect to our C-25s, I suspect it was more like 40/60 dry.)

Here's another vote for stories, experiences, admonishments, opinions, and judgements from our alumni--especially since I'm an opinionated, judgemental--if less experienced--alumnus myself. Maybe we alums should start these threads in the Admiralty forum where the current owners can go at their own risk, and be offended at their own option--possibly even by a stinkpotter.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 06/01/2008 11:44:20

stampeder
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Response Posted - 06/01/2008 : 13:37:04

There is a lot of good information in Sten's posts, and I get a kick out of the attitude. I will stay tuned.
This forum is a good place to exchange sailing information because we keep it civil and respect each other. As soon as anyone crosses the line, I expect our very capable Officers will deal with the situation. I don't have any problem with the content herein because it is factual.

I bought an older C25 instead of a newer C250 for the same reasons that Sten pointed out. I've looked at the newer 30+ footers and am disappointed that Catalina and Hunter and Beneteau put more emphasis on cabin elegance than on deck hardware.

Recall if you will, five years ago on this forum. I, lurker...asked a question regarding a comparison between Catalina and Hunter. The responses were often visceral, always candid, and decidedly pro-Catalina and anti-Hunter. I lurked on a Hunter site and rec'd some good responses but not linear or substantive like this site. I decided to go Catalina, in part, because I thought the Catalina owners sounded more earnest and thoughtful. I still think that.

When the Admiral and I were boat shopping 5 years ago, she really liked the look of the Beneteaus. When we became more educated in boats, we spent less time looking in the cabins and more time looking at deck hardware and spent more time asking about sailing performance. The Admiral noticed that most of the Beneteaus that we looked at were in 'rough' shape. Woodwork was in need of attention, lines were dirty, entire boat often look neglected or abandoned. In contrast, the Catalinas tended to look like they were cared for.

Sten, I've said it before and I'll say it again, Rant on. However, do know that I am highly amused and tend to chuckle when reading your posts.
My boat has been bumped into several times, and like your most recent incident, there was no real damage and now I get a huge kick out of telling the story about the First time boat owner who in his attempt to get his MacGregor off the trailer ended up getting twisted sideways. It was the first and only time I've seen a boat launched sideways. Once afloat, he ran into three boats including mine before he finally ran it up onto the beach. I don't know for sure that it was his first boat, he only drove it like it was his first boat and he launched it like it was the first time he had ever had anything attached to his bumper. We make assumptions and I believe Sten has indicated opinions as such and facts as facts.
IMHO - if you get run into, you are allowed umbrage (a feeling of pique or resentment at some often fancied slight or insult) AND a guy is allowed to rant when run into, its the natural law of setting things in balance.

Edited by - on

GaryB
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Response Posted - 06/01/2008 : 15:40:05

Who was anchored first?

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Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
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Response Posted - 06/01/2008 : 15:55:19

Doesn't matter... He's resposible for his own "slippage". If he had swung into Sten or one of their rodes had wrapped around the other's keel, that'd be a different matter.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 06/01/2008 15:57:14

JohnP
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Response Posted - 06/01/2008 : 19:44:32

Hey Sten,

I sailed about 12 miles up the Chester River the other day trying to collide with you. You suggested you might have been heading up there, but you were nowhere to be found Friday evening or Saturday, so I went back home on the Magothy! Quite a blow with 20 knots from the Southwest!

There was a race between Baltimore Light and Sandy Point Light and a Beneteau was winning until the thunderstorm blew in Saturday afternoon. I looked for your boat there too, but no luck!

I have enjoyed reading about your adventures. I've been lucky anchoring out around the gunkholes on the Bay. Maybe the protected waters make for good neighbors!

Smooth sailing!!! Maybe I'll "bump into you" somewhere else.

Edited by - JohnP on 06/01/2008 19:51:27

GaryB
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Response Posted - 06/01/2008 : 21:59:37

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dave Bristle
 Doesn't matter... He's resposible for his own "slippage". If he had swung into Sten or one of their rodes had wrapped around the other's keel, that'd be a different matter.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Dave,

I agree with you completely. Each boater is/should be responsible for mooring/anchoring properly. We all know that more times than not the other boater is not experienced and are not responsible.

What I was trying to get at is if the anchorage was already heavily populated with other boats and/or the waters rough you have an option/decision at the time you pull into the mooring area to decide to move to another anchorage to reduce the chances of this type of incident happening. If you decide to go in anyway you should expect sooner or later something like this will happen and some of the responsibility would then fall on your decision.

If I pull into a mooring area I normally check out the boats around me to see how they anchored and get a feel for how their and my boat will swing on anchor. If you watch for a few minutes you can get a pretty good idea how much rode they have out just by watching their boat and the anchor line.

I have pulled up anchor more than once to move to a safer anchorage (even if I was anchored first)just because it's easier than getting into an argument with the other boater and/or having to deal with the insurance companies. I would be more paranoid than normal if my boat had just been damaged a few months ago. I would make darn sure I anchored where no one was anywhere near me, if not look for a dock to tie up to.

If the same thing keeps happening to me it can't always be the other guys fault and I have to start looking at what I'm doing that may be contributing to the situation.

I do enjoy learning from Sten's experiences. He is far more seasoned than myself but that doesn't mean he's infallible either.

Edited by - GaryB on 06/01/2008 22:04:14

redviking
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Response Posted - 06/02/2008 : 07:52:37

A few clarifications are in order here. One, my original post was posted less than an hour after the incident. My attitude, which generally stays consistent, MAY have been a bit more fired up than usual due to the fact that I had nearly experienced a crippling Deja Vu experience which would have required postponing our departure for who knows how long.

Two, for those who have forgotten, I was once the C25 that dragged onto a Hans Christian in the middle of the night even though I had 75 feet of chain out and decent scope.

I made a couple of mistakes that night that led to the incident. We all make mistakes or have made mistakes somewhere along the way.

Good ole boats do drag, Island Packets and the like I'm sure have dragged anchor and run into someone somewhere. I just believe that the probability goes up with modern designs and modern owners. Do you ever see an ad for a C250 anymore? How about ANYTHING under 35 feet? Hunter has a tiny ad in the new Sail mag that is advertising a Hunter 170 and across is a FULL page ad for a Hunter 45. How many guys are out there thinking, hmmm open boat versus nice comfy status symbol? A quality new boat of that size should cost double and a sailor making an investment in such a vessel will undoubtedly either hire crew or know what they are doing with years of experience.

When I was a kid, a 25 was a respectable sized vessel and 35 was a world cruiser. A lot has changed and now people are buying way more vessel than they belong in. Then the builders don't give em 3/8ths heavy chain because they would have to put in a bigger windlass and then they would have to have a larger chain locker and that would mean - oh heavens no - the second shower stall might have to go.

Then to accomodate all 4 cabins, they have to add 5 feet here and there until the boat has so much windage that when it even thinks about blowing they are in trouble. NOTE: the wind was only blowing at about 10 knots.

Quote: "Begs the question, if you cringed having to admit you were one of us why are you back here pontificating? Sounds like you're trying to justify your previous cringe by assuming bad seamanship is limited to owners of coastal cruisers."

Spend any time here at all and you'll see a new batch come in every year. Some have experience, some don't. NOTE: I said I used to cringe. Now I don't because as demonstrated here many times, there are plenty of Catalina owners that actually do know what they are doing. As for attitude and pontificating, bad seamanship is not limited to coastal cruisers, it's not limited to "bleach bottle" boat owners, but in my experience and statistically given the higher number of sales and the demographics of the average buyer, there is bound to be a higher rate of incidents. But I'll let you get awoken at 06:00 and unable to return to sleep on a Saturday morning AND a lay day - which means as a cruiser, we ain't moving - and see if you'll feel like pontificating your attitude to someone somewhere.

True story. When southbound, we stopped in Charleston and anchored next to a 1981 Ta-Tong 43. The next day a fellow cruiser and I noticed the boat in question dragging towards the dock. We both jumped into our Zodiacs and I radio'd the marina, etc. We managed to get the boat tied up without damaging any of the mega yachts. When we hauled the chain, there was maybe 40 feet out. A 2 to one? CRAZY. Well the owner, a canadian, just gave up. Last port of call. Swallow the anchor. Sell it. On our northbound journey, i noticed an ad for the boat for sale. The boat originally caught my eye because it looked tough. Two wind generator!

etc...

The listing, which I clipped out describes "SV Warefree". "This turnkey cruiser has been completely refurbished and is literally ready to go. The owner is a very experienced boat owner and has put together an ideal cruising setup." Note: the listing didn't say experienced SAILOR. SO, inexperienced people don't always buy production boats - it can happen - just statistically I'd prefer to be anchored next to that guy than the newbie on a 47 footer.

We were anchored first, but GaryB has the right idea. I couldn't have said it better myself. Run around first, see what is happening before committing. I hate to fail and redrop, but will do so if my first hook isn't so good. AND move if you need to even if you are the "stand on" vessel. In this case the 470 had been anchored well away from us overnight and posed no threat. The anchorage was empty, etc. In the St. Augustine incident - My wife correctly kicked my ass for not picking up and moving when it was clear that it was stupid to be stubborn about the stand on vessel thing.

John P. we decided to skip the trek up the river and we decided on Worton Creek instead since its on the right side of the bay and we are running out of time to get our butts back to New England. That storm would NOT have been fun to be out in, so we got a free lay day, but that was our up the river day, so we needed to modify. Also, we heard reports of a whole fleet of bendytoys and catalinas heading up river to "find" us and either get redemption or revenge.

Sorry we missed you. We will stay here tonight and get back on the road again in the AM.

Dave: You are correct sorta.... The FK is 4550lbs with 1900lbs of keel. Almost a 50/50 but not quite.

Quote:" Beg to differ. If the <insert insult> keep finding you, you need to take action. Two would be enough for me to consider pouring some good rum on Lysistrata's bow and ask Neptune for a break."

We routinely bless our vessel and Neptune with a portion of our beverages following a safe passage or whatever. Our boat does take care of us, and Neptune has been generally kind.

Renzo, adjusted for inflation - your C25 may well be worth 20K in 10 years. I do have a laundry list of requirements - but I won't hijack my own thread.

Finally, geez I'm glad my posts are generally entertaining and not considered offensive by most. I once read someone describe the list as a bunch of cranky old guys. I'm glad I qualify.

As far as knowledge goes - I learn something new everyday. There are people out here who know 100 times more than I do about EVERYTHING! And even they will pick up a new trick every so often. The good life is a process, not a destination.

Sten

DPO C25 #3220 "Zephyr", SR, FK
SV Lysistrata - C&C 39 - Worton Creek MD

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
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Response Posted - 06/02/2008 : 08:37:17

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by redviking
 Dave: You are correct sorta.... The FK is 4550lbs with 1900lbs of keel. Almost a 50/50 but not quite.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Well, 42/58, so I was closer.

Capsize ratio of 1.9 (decent) to your 1.8 per [url="http://www.image-ination.com/sailcalc.html"]Carl's Calculator[/url]. (You wanna be under 2 if you're gonna get tossed around.)

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
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Response Posted - 06/02/2008 : 10:00:53

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by OLarryR 
Believe there is a Section on this Board for those that have moved on to other boats - The Admiralty Forum ?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
That doesn't mean those of us who are denominated as the "Admiralty" are limited to posting on that forum. Whether one is a dues paying member of the National Association, as I am, or otherwise, the Association has never adopted a rule that limited members to posting only on any particular forum. Accordingly, a C25 owner can post on the Capri forum, or vice versa. Likewise, those of us who have moved on to other boats are free to post on any forum, without limitation. In short, any member can post on any forum. The purpose of dividing the forums is not intended to limit participation in them. It is primarily intended as a convenience to the members, so we can easily find the posts that are most likely to be of special interest to us.

Moreover, I have seen the opinion expressed that matters relating to Association business or policies, such as what I am presently discussing, should only be discussed on the members feedback forum. The Association has never adopted a rule imposing such a limitation in that respect either. Such matters can be discussed whenever and wherever they arise on the forum. If a new thread is started, to discuss forum business, it should probably be started in the general forum, because that's where it is most likely to receive the most exposure. The members feedback forum is intended primarily as a "customer service" forum for members.

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OLarryR
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Response Posted - 06/02/2008 : 11:42:24

Steve,

Agree - The Admiralty Forum is not made to limit those to only that area. I kind of threw that out in the spirit of the original posting...just for the fun of it.

Sten,

The fact that you wrote your original posting just an hour after the incident explains a lot ! You must have been fired up !

You mentioned in your last posting something about those buying way more vessel than they belong in. Why is that ? I mean the boat size creep ...you would think with the cost of things that the boat size would go down a bit but sail magazine and a number of other magazines seem to add substance to this comment. There are many that i guess can afford large boats whether they are sailboats or motorboats.

Is this anything similar to other things like the horsepower creep on riding lawnmowers ? It seemed that an 8hp or 11hp was all that was needed years ago for a riding lawnmower. now we have them with 15, 18 and even over 20hp riding lawnmowers for sometimes mowing just a 1/2 to 1 acre.

Recently, i have been considering buying a replacement gas barbecue grill. have you seen the sizes of these things now ? I have a 2 burner with platforms on each side but now they are selling these behemoths with 3,4 and even 5 burners and upwards of perhaps twice as long as mine. What gives ?

Probably the dynamics of these purchases is different - can't really compare a boat size with a riding lawnmower or a barbecue grill...but in these times when the economy is supposedly not doing so great...interesting to see the size and power creep.

Edited by - OLarryR on 06/02/2008 11:45:06

GaryB
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Response Posted - 06/02/2008 : 11:56:26

Larry,

Don't you know that bigger means better and more powerful means superiority? If mine is bigger and more powerful it must mean that I am better than you!

It doesn't mean that I have more brains or common sense on how to use it!

All kidding aside, there are some people that actually need bigger and more powerful whatever's because of their situation. If I were going cruising like Sten I would certainly want a bigger boat just for the pure reason of comfort and safety. I would also learn how to handle it!

Some people buy bigger and/or more powerful just for show. They never go cruising more than a few miles from the dock and the boat sits at the dock 99% of the time.

For the way it's turning out that I use my boat I'm not sure I shouldn't have purchased a C22. My wife doesn't go nearly as often as she led me to believe she would and I'm the only one that's ever spent the night on the boat. A C22 would be easier for me to handle solo and I could keep it in dry covered storage when not using it. So in my case, bigger/more powerful is not necessarily better.

Edited by - GaryB on 06/02/2008 11:58:29

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