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Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Keeping her pointed into the wind while you raise

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knightwind
Navigator

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Canada
114 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/31/2008 : 09:30:35

I've been having trouble keeping the ship pointed into the wind while I run up to the mast and raise the main. Takes even longer having to guide the plugs...mast plate mod. still pending...halyards running to cockpit mod. still pending. I thought somebody said let go of everything and she'll stay pointed into the wind...maybe I need to loosen the mainsheet more than I have been...but I feel the wind is blowing the bow around...even when I lock the tiller at center and power forward slowly, a 5-10kt wind still manages to spin me...
Is this just part of the fun of sailing? or am I forgetting something basic?

Peter Keddie
Turkey Point, ON
79 Catalina 25 Fixed Keel #1050

Edited by - on

Renzo
Admiral

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USA
621 Posts

Response Posted - 05/31/2008 : 10:06:10

Installing the mast gate discussed in another thread will allow you to raise the main before your bow is so far off the wind that the main fills. You could set your anchor and then raise the main that would guarantee that you would point into the wind; but then you would be drifting until you got the anchor stowed. The only other option I can think of is to set your motor speed higher to overcome the force of the wind and waves. Just make sure that you have plenty of sea room and that conditions are not rough. But as I said at the beginning the mast gate mod is a must. It is a easy quick, easy and inexpensive mod to do and will improve your mainsail handling 100 percent.

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 05/31/2008 : 10:18:41

I don't have mast gates, I feed all of slugs into the track and follow with a stopper before I head out. It takes a lot less than a minute to raise the main.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5909 Posts

Response Posted - 05/31/2008 : 10:23:36

When a singlehander has to raise the sails on his boat, the problem that he has is that he has a limited amount of time in which to accomplish the task. The solution to the problem is to find ways to increase the amount of time that you have to finish the job.

I always get well clear of any other boats when raising my sails. By doing so, I don't worry about it if the boat wanders (although I'm always watching for other boats out of the corner of my eye). I point the boat into the wind to raise the mainsail, put the motor in neutral and let the boat coast until it loses most of its speed. (The boat can wander far off course at higher speed, but it can't wander very far at slow speed. Put another way, when the boat is moving at slow speed, it gives you more time to go forward and raise the sail before the boat starts to wander very far.) Then I lash the tiller with a tiller tamer. (By lashing the tiller with a tiller tamer, you give yourself even more time to get the sail raised.) I never try to run to the foredeck to raise the mainsail. It presents too much risk of tripping. When you go forward to raise the mainsail, try to keep your weight as close to the centerline of the boat as possible. When you put your weight out on the gunwale, it pulls the boat off course, and that reduces the amount of time you have to raise the sail. (You'll have to step on the gunwale briefly to get up to the coach roof, but make it as quick as you can, and get your weight on the centerline as soon as you can.)

In very light air, it really doesn't matter what direction the boat is pointing when you raise the mainsail. As the windstrength increases, it becomes increasingly important to be pointing to windward while raising the mainsail. Usually (with practice), you become able to raise the mainsail in the time allowed, while a tiller tamer holds the boat more or less on course. I did it for many years without even the help of a tiller tamer. If you don't get the mainsail up and set properly, upon your first trip forward to the mast, then you can quickly cleat the halyard, go back to the tiller and get the boat back on course, and then go back to the mast to finish making the adjustments.

After the mainsail is raised, even if it isn't adjusted properly, you can put the boat on a close reach, roughly 55 degrees to windward, and lock the helm with the tiller tamer, and the boat will self-steer almost indefinitely on that course, while you finish adjusting the mainsail or raising the jib, or doing whatever else you need to do.

Edited by - Steve Milby on 05/31/2008 10:30:39

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 05/31/2008 : 11:46:30

Until you get around to installing mast gate plates, definitely get a sail-stop (at WM or wherever)--it'll allow you to keep the slugs in the slot (kerf) so when you go to the mast, you'll just have to do a quick tug--a lot less time required. Later, you can use it to hold up the boom when the sail is down...

Also, if you ease the mainsheet to allow the boom to swing maybe 30 degrees or so (and to rise as the sail gets to the top), you can drift off the wind a little and still be luffing. As the sail gets up, if it fills, it should tend to round the boat up. On that point, I'd slow to practically nothing and not "tame" the tiller (tie it down), so when the boat moves forward, it can turn into the wind. The key, however, is a quick hoist--not rushed, just quick and methodical.

I'll add the unsolicited opinion that until you have some experience and the right equipment, except maybe in very light breezes, you should have crew aboard to drive while you do this.... Advice that's worth every cent you paid for it.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 05/31/2008 11:57:30

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 05/31/2008 : 14:57:37

All good advice.

Pre-feeding the slugs and using a stop is your quickest and biggest improvement. Gates and lines led aft will be the next. Having a 'real' topping lift (not the pigtail crimped to the backstay) helps a lot.

If you have the sea room, you can try bying a bit more 'luff time' by tying the tiller off with the boat dead to wind and leaving the engine idling in gear to keep the boat straight. Shut it off and raise it when your main is up. (YMMV)

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 05/31/2008 : 15:23:54

Release the mainsheet enough???? completely!

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OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3478 Posts

Response Posted - 05/31/2008 : 15:32:11

Having the main halyard accessible from the cockpit allows the main sail raising with little issues. I do it this way all the time but I do have a winch on the main cabin top near the cockpit that helps facilitate the raising. I do not have a tiller tamer but what I do is wrap the furling line 2-3 times around the tiller handle and then not securing it but wrapping it around the opposite side cleat to where the furling line is cleated keeps the tiller centered. The benefit is that if the boat starts to veer one way or the other, I do not have to unlock a tiller tamer, the tiller is not held that tightly by the furling line (only with a little tension) so I can just reach back and and adjust the tiller with just a push one way or the other and then continue with the main sail raising. I have never had an issue doing it this way and I sail often. It is a non-issue. Then once the sail is up, I almost always have time to coil the halyard line and store it looped on a cleat next to the halyard winch.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 05/31/2008 : 16:54:17

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Frank Hopper
 Release the mainsheet enough???? completely!<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Well, I'll admit that it's been a while since I hoisted from the mast... I led the sheet and dousing line back on Passage after one season (usually with crew). Then I left the mainsheet free. But my thinking (YMMV) is that by limiting the boom's movement somewhat (+-30 deg.?), you should prevent the boat from swinging around to a broad reach where it won't head back up, and things could get dicey with you up on the cabintop. That's just a thought. But I'll restate my prior opinion: Don't do it alone in any significant wind until you're well-practiced. Alone on the cabintop is no place to be when the boat decides to do something you aren't expecting. And it's hard to do an MOB rescue when you were single-handing.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 05/31/2008 16:54:51

knightwind
Navigator

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Canada
114 Posts

Response Posted - 06/01/2008 : 09:21:55

Somebody mentioned sailstops.
I've been using these things to hold my boom in position...one above , one below...I'm starting to think that's wrong.

Are you saying run one up over the mast gate while the main is raised...and then lower the main so it sits on top of the stop and you don't have to worry about the slugs coming out? This sounds like a good idea to me...until we can get a plate.

What's the correct use of these sailstops. Using the downhaul properly means I don't need a stop above the boom. A stop below the boom stops it from dropping when I lower the sail.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 06/01/2008 : 11:37:28

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by knightwind
 I've been having trouble keeping the ship pointed into the wind while I run up to the mast and raise the main.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

One word...autopilot. I'm a singlehanded sailor who raises the main at the mast, and with the autopilot, I have all day to raise the main.

Or someone manning the tiller with enough throttle on the outboard to keep the bow pointed in the wind.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 06/01/2008 : 12:21:51

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by knightwind
 Are you saying run one up over the mast gate while the main is raised...and then lower the main so it sits on top of the stop and you don't have to worry about the slugs coming out? This sounds like a good idea to me...until we can get a plate.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Exactly. Or you can just feed all of the slugs in with the sail flaked on the boom, and follow them with a stop.
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">What's the correct use of these sailstops. Using the downhaul properly means I don't need a stop above the boom. A stop below the boom stops it from dropping when I lower the sail.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I used one under the gooseneck, too. Their primary purpose is to keep the slugs from falling out.

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dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 06/01/2008 : 14:31:33

While at the dock feed all of the mainsail slugs into the mast gate, then slide the upper sail stop to the top of the mast gate and secure it and leave it there. As for the sail stop below the boom, I would place it about 1-2 inches below where your boom normally is with maximum downhaul applied with the main fully hoisted. If done correctly, you will be able to drop the main with all slugs remaining in the track above the gate, flake the main, and the boom be high enough for the sail cover to fit over the entire sail, if you have the standard style cover.

Edited by - on

knightwind
Navigator

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Canada
114 Posts

Response Posted - 06/01/2008 : 20:21:04

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dmpilc
 While at the dock feed all of the mainsail slugs into the mast gate, then slide the upper sail stop to the top of the mast gate and secure it and leave it there. As for the sail stop below the boom, I would place it about 1-2 inches below where your boom normally is with maximum downhaul applied with the main fully hoisted. If done correctly, you will be able to drop the main with all slugs remaining in the track above the gate, flake the main, and the boom be high enough for the sail cover to fit over the entire sail, if you have the standard style cover.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Roughly how far below the mast gate should the boom attach?

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 06/01/2008 : 20:26:14

Depends on your sail. The boom should be pulled down by the downhaul to tension the luff of the sail when hoisted. As suggested, a sail stop can be positioned a few inches lower than that so when the sail is dropped, the boom drops just a little, but when the sail is hoisted, it is again tensioned by the downhaul.

Edited by - on

Dustysailz
1st Mate

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USA
85 Posts

Response Posted - 06/01/2008 : 20:42:09

There is another option. I single hand frequently (the roller furling unit allows this). The boat resides on a mooring. My usual practice is to get all ready including starting the motor. The main is fully hoisted while at the mooring. As soon as all is good to go, I drop the mooring pennant and take off. Coming back in the reverse is done: after picking up the mooring line, then the main is dropped. This works well for me and has never been a problem. Goodluck and great sailing!

Dustysailz
"Ode To Joy"

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 06/02/2008 : 07:13:42

Knightwind,

This may seem very basic, I don't mean to insult.

Be sure you are raising th emain first, it will act like a weather vane and hold the boat better into the wind.

Also, try to move forward on the centreline of the boat so that there is no weight side to side. by going up on the side of the boat, you induce heel which makes the boat more likely to spin. We have gotten into the habit of raising our sails on the lee side of a spit of land near our marina so we are sheltered from the wind. This means we always have light winds to work in, although they are flukey amd variable. I don't know if you are lucky enough to have that as an option.

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