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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Bilge rot

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Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5430 Posts

Initially Posted - 06/01/2008 : 21:57:49

I checked the bilge today on Passage, SR-FK and noticed a very small amount of fresh water puddling up on the forward end.

Inside the bilge, just ahead of the forward keel bolt, I noticed a chunk of whitish stuff???, more or less glassed into the keel stub, right where the stub connects to the flatter part of the hull. It was in a Vee shaped area, and it looked to be some very old wood (23 years old -- I reckon).

Part of the wood seemed to be embedded into the glass, but the rear portion had broken off - seems the rot just let go. So I pulled the chunk out, dug out what material I could and then opened up both dinette seat covers and placed an electric fan in this section to aid in drying the area out.

Has anybody had any experience dealing with this problem in this particular area of their boat, and if so, what does this mean?

I would not expect much (if any) of the hull to have a wooden core with fibreglass skins over it, so damage may not be wide ranging.

I would expect the keel stub to have some wooden forms or spacers incorporated in it to maintain its shape during the mold - cure process way back when.

But I could be kidding myself. Am I in trouble here?, or should I just dig out all the material and fill the space up with epoxy?

My X-ray vision is not what it used to be, so I'm not sure whether this is a structural catastrophe waiting to happen, or just a red herring?

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

Edited by - on

Justin
Admiral

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502 Posts

Response Posted - 06/02/2008 : 08:01:50

I do not know about fin keels, but when I had a crack repaired in the bottom of my hull (swing keel), my marina owner that did the work said there was a foam core. The crack was just forward of the keel trunk which is just under the mast compression post. So I'm guessing there isn't any wooded core under water. Anyone have ideas?

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redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3477 Posts

Response Posted - 06/02/2008 : 11:32:11

http://www.blumhorst.com/catalina27/images/keel_factory_drawings/

Here is one post someone was nice enough to share. Looks like it indicates a wood keel stub was used pre 1988 for Catalina 27s.

They outlined catalina's recommendations for building up the stub with glass.

Where is the water coming from?
Are the keelbolts sound and clean?

I guess if you asked Catalina what to do they would tell you to do a rebuild. I sailed a Southcoast 22 with a delaminated hull for 15 years. You could push on the hull and oilcan the water between the laminates. Talk about fun!

The boats not new, and assessing the condition is part of the thrill.

My 1984 keelbolts look good and the glass below the bolts appears solid. Nothing seems to be moving, but the keel stub could have rotted and I would not know. One day I'll drill it out and inspect it. Looks like a pretty straight forward job rebuilding it and sistering the keelbolts.

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tinob
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1883 Posts

Response Posted - 06/02/2008 : 12:59:21

Bruce,

The area that you are concerned with should first present with the Catalina smile, usually brought on with the rotting of the wood keel mount which you have discovered. As the wood looses its ability to support the keel properly an excess of space formed by the disappearance of wood fibers due to decomposition of the wood usually shows as a smile in the forward area of the leading edge of the keel, where the keel makes up to the hull. The smile shows as a wet semi-circular line around the upper most part of the keel/hull joint. Had you notice such an oddity while the boat was on the hard?

The only wood in that section is a platform that Catalina built to fair mount the keel to the glass of the hull. It was a mistake ( who thought the boat would last so long)and advisories have been updated as to how to deal with the problem. Seems that Jerry Douglas of Catalina, is the person to contact regarding your problem.

Val on Calista, # 3936, Patchogue, N.Y.

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 06/02/2008 : 13:46:33

Val, I've only seen the "Catalina smile" on the older C-25s with exposed cast iron keels. The 1985 has a lead keel encased by fiberglass that's integral to the hull. I suppose the glass could crack, but there's no seam, per se.

Bruce: Is the wood you're speaking of aligned to the compression post on the foward salon bulkhead (supporting the mast)? My memory of that bilge area is fuzzy... If it is, it might be that you could replace it with a piece of pressure-treated 4x4... Can you get us a pic?

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redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3477 Posts

Response Posted - 06/02/2008 : 15:04:56

From your description and looking at the drawings, you might be talking about the 6x6x? block of wood that is below the compression post.

I've been wondering about the one on mine, as I can see the mast indent the deck slightly, as I was looking at it and considering a new mast bottom plate.

regards.ray

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Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5430 Posts

Response Posted - 06/03/2008 : 22:18:09

Whoa - I appreciate all the comments and suggestions on this.

The source of the water is rain water finding its way in through the fittings, the poptop, the windows and stanchon bolts.

Once it gets into this area, it is more or less completely sealed, and so normal evaporation does not readily take place. That's why I opened both seat covers and am running an electric fan to encourage air circulation. The water does not accumulate regularly, only when it rains.

I can pump it out when we get a big rain. Lately, I've covered the top with a sunbrella boat cover (toast) to keep the water out, so I've noticed the water is negligible.

On Passage, the mast post is not directly above this wood. It appears the wood is aft of the post, and the post rests on an area of fiberglass that is in contact with the hull.

I carefully inspected the boat when the marina pulled it last December. I was curious about how the bottom paint held up, what happened to the depth transducer and knot meter paddle wheel, and where the bottom paint failed.

I did not see the smile, although I surely would have taken note of this while the boat was drying out. The keel bolts appear to be solid (Lord willing) and there are no leaks in the hull.

I looked at the Blumhorst article, and as far as I can tell, the wood is far less extensive in the CAT 25 than is indicated in the CAT 27 drawings and consequently, far less a threat to the integrity of the boat and keel.

My hope is to dig it out, and use penetrating epoxy to build up the area.

I plan to take the camera to the boat this coming weekend, this would be one of those "what the heck IS that?" kind of picture.

Wish me luck!

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 06/03/2008 : 23:22:10

Bruce: Your keel bolts are stainless.

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The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.