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Motor Size

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leebitts
Navigator

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USA
122 Posts

Initially Posted - 06/03/2008 : 15:09:01

I'm in need to get / replace a motor, I was given a nice running short shaft motor but it's just not going to cut it (unless someone has a neat idea). I'd like as small a motor as is reasonable. I sail on a lake that is 11 miles long and while I prefer to push off the dock and get the sails up I need some power to get to the starting line and to be able to get back to the dock if wind dies or other events occur. 'm thinking a 3.5 hp Tohatsu or one of its rebrandeds (Mercury, Nissan). Is that likely to be adequate?

thanks in advance

LeeBitts
1981 Capri 25 Hull # 142
Sailing in NH and Maine

Edited by - on

Ericson33
Admiral

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USA
892 Posts

Response Posted - 06/03/2008 : 15:16:08

I have a 4 up mecury and it does more than needed, my yamaha was a pos.
Long shaft is nice, external tank.

Edited by - on

joearcht
Navigator

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USA
241 Posts

Response Posted - 06/04/2008 : 07:48:45

I have a 6 hp Nissan. It is too much, especially for the weak Capri transom. I never run the motor over the starting thottle mark, which is just barely above idle. I've been watching for a good deal on the Honda 2 hp motor because it is so light (27 lbs) and I could take it off and stow below during races. I sail on a small lake and usually don't have to deal with anything over about 1 foot in wave height (except for the occasional large power boat), but I'm a little concerned about if two hp is enough. I think Catalina recommended 4 hp and the One design criteria requires a min. of 2 hp.

Edited by - on

jmadd
1st Mate

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USA
85 Posts

Response Posted - 06/04/2008 : 09:26:49

The one design class rules
www.catalina-capri-25s.org/racing/apps_docs/Class%20Rules/Capri%2025.pdf
say:
Engine capable of propelling yacht at 5 knots, bracket and fuel.

I'd like to know how big an engine that would take, on a perfectly calm day with no waves. I have a 4.5 hp long shaft and it's fine, but I really need to get that weight off the transom for racing. It's an old Evinrude and probably weighs in at around 70 lbs. I'm wondering if a trolling motor would push the boat on a calm day. That's the only time I really want a motor. except for when crew shows up late and I have to rush to the starting line on light air days. My experience is that the 4.5 hp motor is nearly useless in storms.

Edited by - on

chuck leonard
Deckhand

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Canada
15 Posts

Response Posted - 06/04/2008 : 12:32:30

I have a 2 cycle Nissan 3.5 long shaft with an internal tank and sail in lake erie. I also have a yamaha 6 hp for traveling. The Nissan weighs about 29 pounds and has an internal tank. The Yamaha weighs about 70 pounds and is harder to remove for racing. The Nissan 3.5 is fine to get to the race course and can motor at 5 and a half knots in calm water. I had to replace the shear pin with a stainless one because it would snap the brass pin when I increased the speed. I called Nissan and they told me that the transmission in the 3.5 was the same as their larger motors where a stainless one was used. I have been using this motor for 7 years and have had absolutely no trouble.

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leebitts
Navigator

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USA
122 Posts

Response Posted - 06/04/2008 : 13:30:53

I may be trying to be too cheap. I have a perfectly working 4.5 hp pretty light 2 stroke. The problem is it is a short shaft. In calm water it pushes the boat fine but does not do well if folks have gone forward. I need it to be about 2 inches lower. Is it reasonable to just lower the motor bracket? or is there some other way to deal with that. I'm a bit shocked at the price for a tiny motor. All I want the motor for is in and out of the slip, push to starting line and get me home when the wind dies. Somehow close to $1,000 seems high.

Edited by - on

joemireur
1st Mate

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USA
33 Posts

Response Posted - 06/04/2008 : 19:58:10

I bought #303 not long ago. It had a 2 stroke, 4 hp Mariner on it, but I had a 4 stroke, 2 hp Honda. I swapped them out and now I'm ready to sell the Mariner. I sail in Galveston Bay and Clear Lake in Texas. The little Honda is the best thing since sliced bread for pushing a Capri 25. If I get out in too much wind, I may wish I had more oomph, but we normally don't run it but at about half throttle.

The one problem is the gasoline/ethanol mix. I think sometimes I get a corn kernel in the carb, because it is occasionally really hard to start. I am starting to use fuel stabilizer, but I'd really like to hear from someone who is more familiar with the problem.
Joe Mireur

Edited by - on

joearcht
Navigator

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USA
241 Posts

Response Posted - 06/05/2008 : 07:46:17

jmadd is correct. My 1981 copy of the One Design class rules says 2 hp., but apparently in 1991 the rule was changed to require a motor capable of pushing the boat to 5 knots. I presume that is in calm seas.
I just bought a Honda 4 stroke 2 HP ($770.00 on ebay), so when I get it, I'll test it and report back to the forum.

Edited by - on

SailCO26
Captain

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USA
457 Posts

Response Posted - 06/05/2008 : 08:57:17

I use a 3.5hp Tohatsu 2-cyc, works just fine. Inland lake, typically just dock to the starting area. Most nights we sail back to the slip. Fixed motor bracket, so I pull the engine for racing and it's easier to sail back than to put it back on. Also keeps the lower unit out of the water when slipped. It's a long-shaft model, but will still cavitate with weight on the bow in some conditions.

Edited by - on

leebitts
Navigator

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USA
122 Posts

Response Posted - 06/10/2008 : 14:17:41

I love it when things work out. Found a buyer for the short shaft and bought a nice running Nissan 5 hp 2 stroke that is lighter and cheaper than the one I sold. After tuning it up I'll probably come out about even.

Edited by - on

leebitts
Navigator

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USA
122 Posts

Response Posted - 07/07/2008 : 16:23:55

Realistically what size motor do I need? The Nissan 5 hp essentially blew up so I'm in the hunt again. I'd like a reliable motor with adequate punch to get me to the starting line, back into my slip and such. I'm not sure how the rest of the season will go but the area that I sail in can blow up a bit. This past Saturday the 5 hp was not quite able to do what I wanted so I ended up in the slip but not exactly where I wanted to be. I do not know if part of the problem was that motor was overheating or what. I'm faced with buying a new one and I do not want to spend a bunch of money, but I also do not want to throw more money away so I want the least expensive reliable motor that will do the job. The lake that I sail on is about 11 miles long and 1 to 2 miles wide.

Thanks for your help.

Edited by - on

leebitts
Navigator

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USA
122 Posts

Response Posted - 07/07/2008 : 16:38:09

I should have mentioned in that past post that the dealer, also a customer of mine and the service guy for my dead motor has a 2005 9.9 hp long shaft weighing 80 pounds for $1,200. Is that too much weight and power?

Edited by - on

jmadd
1st Mate

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USA
85 Posts

Response Posted - 07/07/2008 : 16:53:58

IMHO that is big-time overkill, especially if you're going to be racing. I have what's probably a 20 year old 4.5 hp Evinrude and it's all I've ever wanted. I think it pushes me as fast as around 6 knots. It has plenty of power until you get into high winds (maybe 12-14 and over) AND you need to do close maneuvering. The critical thing for me is having a motor that you can pivot easily. Pivoting my OB I can pretty much spin the boat on the keel.

I'm wanting to go the other direction to get the weight off my transom. The rocking (pitching) I get in swells pretty much kills me in light air and I think the weight of the motor contributes a lot to the rocking.

Edited by - on

joemireur
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
33 Posts

Response Posted - 07/07/2008 : 20:40:15

Honda - 2 horsepower! I like mine more every day. The fuel stabilizer keeps the whole gallon of fuel from going bad before I can run it through the Honda. Looks my fuel budget will be less than $20.00 this year, sailing once a week year round. Doesn't weigh much, has a lot of push, air cooled (I can start it and then lower it into the water), spins 360 degrees. Simple, which is good for me.

Joe

Edited by - on

leebitts
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
122 Posts

Response Posted - 07/07/2008 : 20:41:03

I can get a 3.5 hp Mercury for $945 or a 4 hp mercury for $1,250. The 3.5 is lighter, but does not have reverse. If I kept my boat on a mooring I'd get the lighter cheaper 3.5 hp. I keep the boat in a pretty tight slip, have a wife that is used to sailing larger boats with inboard diesels. I'm trying to balance racing and cruising. I race phrf, the most similar boat is 1 J22. There are a few boats that beat both of us (no motors on them) Flying Scotts, Hylander, Thistle etc. I have a race tomorrow ( July 8 )and can pick up either on my way to the boat. Can someone help beam me into a decision?

Thanks

Edited by - on

joearcht
Navigator

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USA
241 Posts

Response Posted - 07/07/2008 : 20:56:51

I've installed and used my new Honda 2 hp several times now. The instructions said not to run at full thottle for at least 10 hours. It takes me about 5 mins each way to get from the slip to racing area, therefore it will be awhile before I attempt to see how fast the motor will push the boat. Right now however, I've had no problem manuevering the boat in the slip fingers and getting out past the no wake buoys with just running the motor at the "start" engine mark. At this engine speed the boat runs about 3 knots in calm water. I expect that the motor will push the boat to 5 knots, but don't know for sure yet. I also expect that in high winds the boat will be tricky to handle, but even then an underpowered motor is better than "NO" motor when your trying to get into finger slips. My experiance with this boat is that it can side slip pretty quickly while you trying to get the boat underway and a backwinded jib is a disaster in close quarters. I really like the 27 lbs. motor weight. I'm working towards a fixed removable motor bracket instead of the raising and lowering one that I have now. Once that is installed I should be able to just release the bracket and lift motor and all into the cockpit and stow below.

Edited by - on

SailCO26
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
457 Posts

Response Posted - 07/08/2008 : 09:25:15

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by leebitts
 I can get a 3.5 hp Mercury for $945 or a 4 hp mercury for $1,250. The 3.5 is lighter, but does not have reverse.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Me, I'd opt for the 3.5hp. You dont need the extra hp unless you get a longer distance away from home. Reverse? PAH! I dont even turn my engine. It's "locked" with just a hint of stbd to counter the offset mount.

I pull mine every race (fixed mount, so if I dont it drags water). Down in the cabin, over the keel. Definitely helps in light air.

I keep the boat in a slip, backed in. Always have. Heck, I back cars in everywhere I go, so maybe I'm just goofy. Anyway, typical return with this boat is to sail in to the slip (bow in), tie the tiller off with the traveler line, tie a line to the rear cleat (upwind side), push the boat back out the slip - when the bow clears the docks give it a good push upwind and start hauling on the line to the stern. The boat will pretty much spin in place, with any x-wind helping the bow around. Pull her right back into the slip backwards and tie her off.

Have never had any need for reverse on a boat of this size (CP26 was a different story, tho!). 3.5hp is only a concern in very high winds - can be tough to keep the bow into the wind/waves, but doable if you keep on it. Once it starts off the wind...

Edited by - on

Capstan
Deckhand

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6 Posts

Response Posted - 07/08/2008 : 15:56:26

I have a Yamaha 5hp on my Capri and I wouldn't want anything smaller, but other people may have different circumstances. Every so often I have to drop the sails and motor home a few miles in rough weather and large swells, a weaker engine wouldn't do the job. I also definitely need a reverse gear due to the limited clearance around my slip. I have a short-shaft motor (wish it were long) which is mounted low on the transom where things are presumably a little stronger but still it can cavitate at times. The mount allows me to move it up or down into the water, but it isn't an ideal arrangement by any means.

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leebitts
Navigator

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USA
122 Posts

Response Posted - 07/09/2008 : 15:47:15

I ended up buying a 4 hp mercury with reverse. My dock is tight enough and the wind can come straight abeam that not having reverse struck me as foolish particluraly on days that I will be with just my wife and daughter. The motor seems to have good power. It weighs 54 pounds.

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