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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Time for the gudgeon work, ugh!

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luckystar
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USA
236 Posts

Initially Posted - 08/28/2002 : 18:16:21

I know this topic has been broached many a time here, but the archives are incomplete. I have the kind of lower gudgeon that's embedded in glass with the 1x5" brass plate/nuts (nuts is right!)

I'm looking for a little assistance here before I start trial and erroring it in an area I feel a little uncomfortable.

What should I use to grind away the glass to get down to the plate?
Is it possible to remove the bolts, from the outside? Mine are a little stuck and effforts to remove have given me pause before breaking the head off or stripping it out.

My gudgeon is tight but the bedding compound that was there is now gone and it rattles around down there. Top gudgeon is tight, but while doing all of this, I plan to cut the hole, mount the hatch, figure out a better way of backing both top and bottom (could use some advice here as well as how to do.)

As always thanks for the assistance and hopefully after this coming spring's pull-out and bottom job/to-hull/transducer/knotmeter replacement that will complete my bottom and big jobs for a while.

Patrick Burnett, Little Rock, AR
S/V Lucky Star #2707 1982 SK/SR

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Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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1893 Posts

Response Posted - 08/28/2002 : 19:49:41

<center><b>C-25 Rudder Gudgeon Reinforcement</b></center>
Here's what I did to my C-25 rudder gudgeons. You may not want to do
all of this, or you may want to do other stuff.

1.) Purchased the new improved gudgeons and pintles from the Catalina
factory, and a 4" Beckson plate (removable round access cover, there are other brands out there too).

2.) Cut hole in aft end of cockpit for access plate, centered on bolt pattern of the upper gudgeon. Specifically, after measuring carefully several times, I traced the access plate mounting ring, and drilled many 1/8" holes just inside the line. I then connected the dots using a 1/8" carbide mill bit in a die grinder. Then I smoothed the edge of the hole with a large drum sanding attachment in a drill motor until the mounting ring fit perfectly. If you're not sure about the exact location, try removing the middle gudgeon screw, and drilling that hole all the way through the aft wall of the cockpit. Then trace the other two bolt holes inside the cockpit using one of the new gudgeons. Draw crosshairs on that pattern, make four marks the radius of the mounting ring out from the cross, use those to align the ring for tracing.

3.) Removed old gudgeons. If the screws seem too tight, check for nuts inside the transom.

4.) Drilled out mounting holes in new gudgeons and transom to 5/16"
diameter. (Stock is 1/4" diameter)

5.) Made up fiberglass and epoxy 3/16" to 1/4" thick backing plates 1" larger than gudgeons all around. Drilled to match new gudgeons.

6.) Bedded backing plates inside transom with 3M-5200 or similar, held in position with 5/16" diameter bolts. Removed bolts after adhesive had set up.

7.) Installed new gudgeons bedded with polysulfide goo using
appropriate length 5/16" diameter bolts, flat washers outside, fender
washers, split washers and nylock nuts inside.

8.) Finished installing access plate with #6 machine screws and nylock washers. (Self-tapping screws would work just fine, getting nuts in there is tricky.) When drilling the ring mounting holes, remember to line up the pattern on either a vertical or horizontal axis for aesthetics. This thing is going to be very visible. For bedding, I used just a small smear of silicon or polysulfide where the ring fits through the hole in the cockpit. There's no need to get carried away sealing this, as it's on a vertical surface, and if it drips the leak drains into the bilge.

-- Leon Sisson

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eric.werkowitz
Captain

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USA
283 Posts

Response Posted - 08/28/2002 : 20:48:54

Patrick,

Ref. Leon's post. I cut the hole for the Beckson plate using my Dremel tool with a spiral cutting bit. Worked very well. I did it free hand and cut inside the line. Used the drum sander attachment to complete the hole.

I didn't need to grind out the old plate, It was already loose as I recall.

I used epoxy coated plywood ("3/8 I think) to back up the bolts and used thickened epoxy to form the plywood to hull adhesion. I used some shims to hold the lower gudgeon backer in place while I drilled the holes through the backer using the old holes as a guide and drilling from the outside of the hull inward. I removed the shims, slathered on a lot of epoxy, coated the bolts with boatlife caulk, inserted them through the gudgeon, hull and backer and tightened them. The epoxy and caulk then cured.

Not too bad a job.

Eric Werkowitz
C25 #4969

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luckystar
Navigator

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USA
236 Posts

Response Posted - 08/28/2002 : 22:42:44

Thanks, I'll do a variation of those for the upper one, but it's the lower gudgeon that I'm most worried about. Unfortunately, catalina factory completely glassed over the backing plate down there. So I'm going to have to grind it out if I want to replace the backing plate. Otherwise, my goal will be to remove the old bolts that feel rather stuck. Any tips on getting them out with out breaking them off? Do the new gudgeons have to use the larger bolts? (leon said something about 1/4" orig. and 5/16" new)

Patrick Burnett, Little Rock, AR
S/V Lucky Star #2707 1982 SK/SR

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jwilliams
Captain

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357 Posts

Response Posted - 08/28/2002 : 23:43:22

Patrick,

Re the lower gudgeon.

Have you looked at the lower gudgeon from the quarter berth access panel? Are there nuts there?

On Hey Jude ('82) there were not, just the bronze plate (that I couldn't see until I ground away the fiberglass mound that held it in place) with the screws coming in thru the transom. So if you have nuts on the screws you gotta remove them before you go on.

I have an orbital sander, the kind that uses about a 4x5 in. piece of sandpaper. I used 50 grit paper and could hold the sander with one hand through the access panel in the quarter berth and slowly grind down the half inch or so of glass, until I hit the bronze (or brass or whateverthehell the metal backing plate is made of).

I took pains to insure that the bilge would not get a load of fiberglass dust by first duct taping a catch cloth below the place I was sanding. When I was done I just folded up the cloth and did not have to futz with itching dust forever.

When you get to metal, you should see the three holes where the screws come thru the backing plate. I installed an oversize SS plate on the transom side drilled to accept the new bolts. You will have to thru-drill the bronze plate too. New bolts, nylon-lock nuts lots of polysulfide goop and you are there. (Don't forget the goop, remembering that under way the lower gudgeon is underwater.)

Good sailing,

Jim Williams
Hey Jude C25fk 2958

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